South African Tigers

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kk20gb30
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by kk20gb30 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:22 am

So long as the players have the heart , desire and ability to represent The Club in the correct manner it does not matter where they come from.A strong Academy base together with talent from elsewhere can be a very good and beneficial recipe.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility ......... Not long or far to go now......

Cardiff Tig
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by Cardiff Tig » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:14 am

My one worry is that we seem to have bought a lot of back row players. It seems that Reffell will be leaving sooner rather than later.

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:06 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:14 am
My one worry is that we seem to have bought a lot of back row players. It seems that Reffell will be leaving sooner rather than later.
I dunno about that, in the last couple of seasons we've lost more back row's than we've signed:

Van Staden -> Taufua
Wiese -> Kalamafoni
Brink -> Thompson
Wallace -> Boladau
Liebenberg -> Willliams
Coghlan -> Denton
Also left O'Connor & Mapapalangi.

It's a very physical position, and injuries (and suspensions it seems) are common
Last edited by TigerFeetSteve on Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Big Dai
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by Big Dai » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:13 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:14 am
My one worry is that we seem to have bought a lot of back row players. It seems that Reffell will be leaving sooner rather than later.
If he has Welsh ambitions is this not, sadly, inevitable?
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Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:36 am

Big Dai wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:13 am
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:14 am
My one worry is that we seem to have bought a lot of back row players. It seems that Reffell will be leaving sooner rather than later.
If he has Welsh ambitions is this not, sadly, inevitable?
He can get capped playing for Tigers but it gets complicated after that at next contract time, Wales are quite well covered at 7 so he will have to be playing well to get in the team which is a bonus forus, the Scarlets up & coming 7 Jac Morgan (younger than Reffell) is heading east to Swansea to I presume even up the resources across the regions. At present providing he plays more often than not he is probably as well staying where he is. He is the best 7 in our squad & balances out the back row.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

FrontRowUnionMember
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by FrontRowUnionMember » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:39 am

Big Dai wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:13 am
Cardiff Tig wrote: My one worry is that we seem to have bought a lot of back row players. It seems that Reffell will be leaving sooner rather than later.
If he has Welsh ambitions is this not, sadly, inevitable?
Whilst he remains uncapped he can sign a contract with Tigers and is still eligible to be called up. It’s only once capped that he needs to return to Wales upon expiry of current contract.
As such, tying him down to a long term contract now would protect both him and the club. 5 year deal, similar to what Sale have done with Curry etc
This is what Exeter did with Tomas Francis over the last few years, but now his contract is coming up for renewal he has to go back to Wales if he wants to carry on playing for them.
It’s worth factoring in where does he sit in the hierarchy given Thomas Young doesn’t get a look in of the Wales 7 jersey.
As for the numbers, I think we’re probably about right, Liebenberg, Brink, Van Staden, Reffell, Wallace, Wiese, 6 senior options, plus potentially the likes of Lewis and Smith in the background.
Last edited by FrontRowUnionMember on Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:44 am, edited 6 times in total.

Cardiff Tig
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by Cardiff Tig » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:40 am

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:06 am
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:14 am
My one worry is that we seem to have bought a lot of back row players. It seems that Reffell will be leaving sooner rather than later.
I dunno about that, in the last couple of seasons we've lost more back row's than we've signed:

Van Staden -> Taufua
Wiese -> Kalamafoni
Brink -> Thompson
Wallace -> Boladau
Liebenberg -> Willliams
Coghlan -> Denton
Also left O'Connor & Mapapalangi.

It's a very physical position, and injuries (and suspensions it seems) are common
It just seems that our first choice back row and the bench position, will all be overseas players (the south african part doesn't bother me). It always seemed like we had good homegrown back row players to go along side the star names but maybe I'm just being nostalgic...

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Re: South African Tigers

Post by JP14 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:26 am

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:58 pm
ay2oh wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:58 pm
Don’t forget Harry Roberts
Best Hooker I have seen in a Tigers shirt..years ahead of his time.....wasn't he a Zimbabwean?
Technically Eli Synman is Zimbabwean, but has played for the Junior Boks.
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:59 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:40 am
TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:06 am
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:14 am
My one worry is that we seem to have bought a lot of back row players. It seems that Reffell will be leaving sooner rather than later.
I dunno about that, in the last couple of seasons we've lost more back row's than we've signed:

Van Staden -> Taufua
Wiese -> Kalamafoni
Brink -> Thompson
Wallace -> Boladau
Liebenberg -> Willliams
Coghlan -> Denton
Also left O'Connor & Mapapalangi.

It's a very physical position, and injuries (and suspensions it seems) are common
It just seems that our first choice back row and the bench position, will all be overseas players (the south african part doesn't bother me). It always seemed like we had good homegrown back row players to go along side the star names but maybe I'm just being nostalgic...
Agreed, but it was thought similar this year once Brink was fit and Taufua was still here, but rotation and injuries meant that Reffell has been playing regularly throughout the season, I doubt this will change significantly so think he's probably likely to stay, if one gets edged out I think it more likely to be Wallace TBH.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

MurphysLaw
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by MurphysLaw » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:44 am

Finding the right balance when trying to re-shape the squad must be a really tricky task given the financial constraints of clubs and the reduction in salary cap. I think it was Jan McGinity who said that South African players represented good value for money, and, as other posters have listed, we have had some very good players in the past. If the current crop buy in to the Club's aims, then that's all good.
Having said that, the salary cap regulations are complicated by the allowable credits. As the cap total reduces next season, these credits become more important - credits for home grown players, and for England players in particular. The maximum allowable totals for these become a significant percentage. So just loading a team with overseas players might be beneficial in some ways, but there are some draw-backs too.
Then there is the question of any future changes to the Kolpak rules. I think tigers have about 10 or 11 players who currently qualify.
I think it is all a question of balance, and I do not envy those at Tigers who are tasked with optimising the playing squad whilst factoring in the various implications and constraints.

BengalTiger
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by BengalTiger » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:01 pm

I am happy to fess up to being less than a fan of importing a raft of SA players, it is copying the Sale formula and the well trodden path of Saracens, neither of which I am happy for Tigers to try to emulate.
For me it is a quick fix and an admission of planning failure, the reasons are valid and the players are all first rate but it underscored an issue with the club game and the development of home grown talent.
It is of enormous befit to have a team with few England squad players, as seen at the weekend against LI.
This is a structural problem not of Tigers making and has caused us a lot of issues over the past few years, so importing these SA players starts to address this and so is good for Tigers but it leaves me feeling uneasy about what is the next step, will we actively jettison players once they are in the England squad, so we can compete with clubs who currently have very few call ups?

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:26 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:01 pm
I am happy to fess up to being less than a fan of importing a raft of SA players, it is copying the Sale formula and the well trodden path of Saracens, neither of which I am happy for Tigers to try to emulate.
For me it is a quick fix and an admission of planning failure, the reasons are valid and the players are all first rate but it underscored an issue with the club game and the development of home grown talent.
It is of enormous befit to have a team with few England squad players, as seen at the weekend against LI.
This is a structural problem not of Tigers making and has caused us a lot of issues over the past few years, so importing these SA players starts to address this and so is good for Tigers but it leaves me feeling uneasy about what is the next step, will we actively jettison players once they are in the England squad, so we can compete with clubs who currently have very few call ups?
Personally, no I think the fact we've got these overseas players means we can MORE afford to lose England players during international windows. Look at Van Wyk, he's coming in to play backup to Genge, meaning we don't need to consider if Genge is worth his wages because we have a quality player in the team when he's not.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

MurphysLaw
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by MurphysLaw » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:59 pm

[quote=BengalTiger post_id=771044 time=1615291316 user_id=10609]
I am happy to fess up to being less than a fan of importing a raft of SA players, it is copying the Sale formula and the well trodden path of Saracens, neither of which I am happy for Tigers to try to emulate.
For me it is a quick fix and an admission of planning failure, the reasons are valid and the players are all first rate but it underscored an issue with the club game and the development of home grown talent.
It is of enormous befit to have a team with few England squad players, as seen at the weekend against LI.
This is a structural problem not of Tigers making and has caused us a lot of issues over the past few years, so importing these SA players starts to address this and so is good for Tigers but it leaves me feeling uneasy about what is the next step, will we actively jettison players once they are in the England squad, so we can compete with clubs who currently have very few call ups?
[/quote]

I don't think it's that straightforward. Yes, you have the consistency of selecting a settled side but, if you were to jettison England players, particularly 'home grown' ones, you would lose a significant amount of credits against the salary cap.
There's also the incentive payment over the season for playing EQPs.

ay2oh
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by ay2oh » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:01 pm

One thing you can say about South African players is that they all give 100% every time they take the pitch which you can’t say about all players
A2O

Scott1
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Re: South African Tigers

Post by Scott1 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:10 pm

On the one hand we've got the second most foreign players behind LI. On the other we are currently supplying 3 England players,have 4 in Heyes,Martin,JVP and Steward who could be playing for England soon and against Bath we had 11 academy players in the 23. Gotta be happy with that

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