Bonus Points

[OakhamTiger32]

There has been lots of chat on various threads about leaving bonus points on the field and somebody asked what the table might look like if bonus points weren't a factor. I enjoy a good challenge so have had a look and the answer is this:

1. Bristol 38 points
2. Exeter 32 points
3. Quins 32 points
4. Sale 32 points
5. Newcastle 28 points
6. Saints 26 points
7. Tigers 26 points
8. Irish 24 points
9. Wasps 20 points
10. Bath 20 points
11. Gloucester 12 points
12. Worcester 12 points

*COVID points allocations of 4/2 included.

Compared to:

1. Bristol 46 points
2. Exeter 40 points
3. Quins 38 points
4. Sale 36 points
5. Saints 31 points
6. Irish 31 points
7. Newcastle 29 points
8. Tigers 28 points
9. Wasps 26 points
10. Bath 24 points
11. Gloucester 19 points
12. Worcester 16 points

So not a huge amount of difference is the answer. Top 4 and bottom 4 remain the same and it's just Irish and Newcastle moving by 2 places mid table that makes the most difference. We would be 7th compared to our current 8th position.

So without LBP and TBP the table would largely be the same. I do appreciate the recent frustration with the fact we have perhaps left 4 or 5 points out there and had we secured LBP and TBP in those matches we would be 5th. C'est la vie.

In all honesty if you had offered me 8th place after 12 rounds with 6 wins and a buffer of 12 points to the bottom and only 3 points to 5th and 8 points to the playoff spots I would have bitten your arm off given the last 2 or 3 seasons.

So yes we are leaving a few points out there but the progress has been excellent in a relatively short period of time and the BPs of both flavours will come as the confidence within the squad grows. We are getting there and the game management mistakes we are making will only improve as players settle in, get used to playing together, partnerships mature and our Internationals, in particular our first choice half backs return from the 6N.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

It's as much the giving up as gaining BPs that's an issue, we are 3 points behind LI, we left one on the field Fri & gave two up...

[RagingBull]

but what would the table look like if we
Got a LBP v Irish
Got a TBP v Bath
Got a TBP and LBP v Quins
Got a LBP v Bristol
Got a TBP v Irish

That's the thing for me
Especially Quins, Irish and Bath TBP's we had what felt like at least 20-15 minutes to score that try.

[OakhamTiger32]

but what would the table look like if we
Got a LBP v Irish
Got a TBP v Bath
Got a TBP and LBP v Quins
Got a LBP v Bristol
Got a TBP v Irish

That's the thing for me
Especially Quins, Irish and Bath TBP's we had what felt like at least 20-15 minutes to score that try.

We would be 5th. I get people’s frustration with this and I do share these thoughts but my post was more answering a question specifically about what the table would look like without BPs. Only getting 2 BPs in 12 games is definitely an area to work on but I think it’ll come

[RichieB]

There is a sense that there is a lack of a killer instinct. When you've got your metaphorical foot on the opposition's throat you don't capitalise. I'd venture it is the difference between a good team and a great team. LBP's and TBP's (won and lost) are an example of being in a potentially good situation and just not finishing the job.

[JP14]

One of our major work ons for me is patience, if we had been a bit more composed I suspected we would have got that TBP against Irish.

[physiodan]

We are very much a work in progress and the bonus points will come. I am disappointed we failed to secure the BP on Friday but chances are we may have lost that game last year. Give this team time, we were missing a number of first choice players on Friday through injury or suspension. One returns for the Gloucester game so let’s see what happens with a bit more dynamism.

What we don’t know are the goals set out for SB this year. Survival is guaranteed now so it also gives him opportunity to play less experienced players so next season we have a stronger squad.

Is the goal set by the board:
To win the league? I doubt it.
To finish in the Top Four? I doubt it but there may be a bonus if we do.
To finish in the Top Six and have top level European rugby next season? I suspect so... and if it is we look on course to do so whilst having the opportunity to blood young players.

Over the last 10 years the most points scored for 6th position is 61 with 11 wins. Most have been about 56 points. We are very much on course for this and with the returning England players strengthening the scrum and adding to our attack I believe we will do it. I would much rather see 8 wins without a BP than 5 with to get to the same result of finishing top 6. With winning comes confidence and with confidence comes bonus points.

[Rob18C]

but what would the table look like if we
Got a LBP v Irish
Got a TBP v Bath
Got a TBP and LBP v Quins
Got a LBP v Bristol
Got a TBP v Irish

That's the thing for me
Especially Quins, Irish and Bath TBP's we had what felt like at least 20-15 minutes to score that try.

But I am sure a lot of fans from other clubs are thinking the same thing. What if they got TBP or LBP against certain clubs.

I agree however that we do get very few TBP and when we lose it is also normally more than a LBP which is disappointing. But I hope this will come with time. For 2 years we have been just hoping for a win we have been that bad so it will take a while to change the mentality of the players into targeting bonus points more than just wins.

[ads]

Just picking this up again as I've just been veiwing the current table and was surprised to see that we have as many wins as 3rd placed quins, and 2 more than LI just above us.
I know they have draws which skews things slightly but I deffinitley think we need to start trying to target the BP's a bit more when we have a chance.
Wins 1st and foremost but BP's could make a big difference when it comes to the back end of the season and play off places...

Even at the bottom of the table, Glouc have 8 BP's 3 more than Worcs, so would still be jint bottom without them.

[Nofrontteeth]

Agree ads. My very thoughts when I raised the point and our man in Oakham kindly ran with it.
If I'm right many years ago match points kicked were worth more than tries; then the value of tries became the thing but even their value varied over the years; and now we have league positions reliant on bonus points.
For me if we judge the league it's down to wins what ever the score, and draws and not on how much we lost by.
Now where is that shirt with a big letter B on it?

Keep safe folks

[RichieB]

It feels to me frustrating as much as anything else when these bonus points are left out on the pitch. However, if this is what we are unhappy about it suggests we are in a much better place than 12 months ago when had much greater concerns!

[TigerFeetSteve]

Just picking this up again as I've just been veiwing the current table and was surprised to see that we have as many wins as 3rd placed quins, and 2 more than LI just above us.
I know they have draws which skews things slightly but I deffinitley think we need to start trying to target the BP's a bit more when we have a chance.
Wins 1st and foremost but BP's could make a big difference when it comes to the back end of the season and play off places...

Even at the bottom of the table, Glouc have 8 BP's 3 more than Worcs, so would still be jint bottom without them.

I'd also point out that Quins and London Irish both have draws adding to points tallies.

I'll also ask how each team's Covid "losses" affect the table, as most losses do not bring 2 points.

Yes missing out on bonus points is frustrating, but to just look at this years table where there quite a few 4-2 Covid point splits that are also possibly skewing it.

Personally I'm of the opinion that if we start winning more regularly then the confidence that brings will draw in more bonus points (even LBP's as we will know we're more capable of coming back)

[tigerburnie]

We are on a long journey back to where we fell from, it is not going to happen in one season, playing together as a side takes time, it took Saracens 3 years if memory serves me right, Exeter took longer, I think there's a call for more patience from the arm chair pundits than there is from the players. When we get our full first choice squad on the park and used to playing together, then I expect we will see more of the champagne rugby we would all like to see. For now a one point win is better than a bonus point loss.

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I'd also point out that Quins and London Irish both have draws adding to points tallies.

I did say that skew'd things slightly, and obviously the games called off for covid skew it even more but we should still be looking to* gaining as many BP's as possible. Like others say though, if this is what we are moaining about then we must be doing something right!!

*I'm sure they are trying to address this, baby steps and all that...

[jgriffin]

Stop whittling FGS. We are just so much better, even when it's many of our 2nd choice players on the park.