Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

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mol2
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by mol2 »

Ultimately the fans are what professional sports teams exist for.

The fans are who the advertisers, TV and sponsors are targetting. The fans are the ones who pay to watch the game either at teh ground or via their TV subscription.

So yes their views do count and any team that alienates them better have a sugar daddy on hand, as without fans, who are the sponsors aiming their marketing budget at?

That's no excuse for offensive behaviour but fans come from all walks of life and many may not have played the game at a meaningful level, but they are just as important as everyone else watching the game. Indeed the insights of those who are not too close to the team or players can be more objective than those within.
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by Crofty »

ourla wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:53 pm Sorry if I misled anyone.

This was largely a parody on the "Has Rugby Got a Refereeing Problem?" thread which I thought quite laughable really.

I mean of course refereeing should be discussed, scrutinised even but there is so much hyperbole.

And the point really was you could apply many of the same constructs/hyperbole to fans.

Let's not lose sight of what is good in rugby - and by and large that includes the officiating, the players, coaches and staff... and indeed the fans.
It's a gut feeling but I think the post you are parodying is its self written to somewhat parody the glut of "Does Rugby have a Y problem?" articles we've seen in recent years where Y has included image, racism/colonialism, toxic masculinity, steroid abuse, and many others, most of which have been hyperbolised in those articles. Much like the reddit meme of threads titled, Is it time to get rid of X from the 6 Nations, usually aimed at whichever big side has lost that week.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?

non possumus capere
BFG
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by BFG »

A topic when there aren't any fans at games currently says a lot.
Social media offering a platform to a minority of morons is a problem.
ourla
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by ourla »

Crofty wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:16 am
ourla wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:53 pm Sorry if I misled anyone.

This was largely a parody on the "Has Rugby Got a Refereeing Problem?" thread which I thought quite laughable really.

I mean of course refereeing should be discussed, scrutinised even but there is so much hyperbole.

And the point really was you could apply many of the same constructs/hyperbole to fans.

Let's not lose sight of what is good in rugby - and by and large that includes the officiating, the players, coaches and staff... and indeed the fans.
It's a gut feeling but I think the post you are parodying is its self written to somewhat parody the glut of "Does Rugby have a Y problem?" articles we've seen in recent years where Y has included image, racism/colonialism, toxic masculinity, steroid abuse, and many others, most of which have been hyperbolised in those articles. Much like the reddit meme of threads titled, Is it time to get rid of X from the 6 Nations, usually aimed at whichever big side has lost that week.
You got it.

Not that there may not be valid points to be had or that we should shut down on debate. It's more a question of framing the debate based on a bit of thought and less hyperbole. Also not reacting to something that just happened but thinking back over a longer timeframe or a wider context.

One of the things that stood out for me was the idea that only ex top flight players should referee top flight rugby. Comments made by people who have never played top flight rugby.

Anyhow, couple of hours, and the teams will be up and we can all move on!
AViewFromLe2
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by AViewFromLe2 »

As someone who write the thread and article about the referees, I would like to say, it was not a parody of those reddit type threads, or certainly not meant to be. It was a genuine question, using most recent examples to help support, to make an argument and to ask the question. Now you may or may not agree with the points made, but I find it slightly frustrating to read comments like hyperbole or not using a lot of thought. Especially when a lot of thought did go into the piece to try and make it balanced, but try and get my points across in a fair manner.

Now I may be reading previous points wrong, and if so, I apologise, but it is slightly frustrating as a new blogger to have pieces dismissed as hyperbole or lacking thought or considered a parody. I'd like to think over the first few pieces I have written, that I try to do so in a fair and balanced piece.
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by Crofty »

AViewFromLe2 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:59 am As someone who write the thread and article about the referees, I would like to say, it was not a parody of those reddit type threads, or certainly not meant to be. It was a genuine question, using most recent examples to help support, to make an argument and to ask the question. Now you may or may not agree with the points made, but I find it slightly frustrating to read comments like hyperbole or not using a lot of thought. Especially when a lot of thought did go into the piece to try and make it balanced, but try and get my points across in a fair manner.

Now I may be reading previous points wrong, and if so, I apologise, but it is slightly frustrating as a new blogger to have pieces dismissed as hyperbole or lacking thought or considered a parody. I'd like to think over the first few pieces I have written, that I try to do so in a fair and balanced piece.
Yeah, I'd read something somewhere (I'd thought here but probably reddit) with the same title and near word for word Ourla's post but with the word fan replaced with referee and thought that was what he had done to your original post (that I hadn'tread but thought I had), my apologies to you.

I do disagree with you on one point though, you say both Tigers and England deserved to lose, I don't think that argument can be made so definitively in either case. For Tigers the score outside of the dubious yellow card period was 3-3 and with no points coming from Bristol's continually underpunished infringing on their own 5m, well who knows, impossible to say one way or the other. For England everyone points to the penalty count and the stage of 24-24 but again, and even you stated this, sir was demonstrably harsher on the whistle with England than Wales, pinging the men in white for things that didn't bother him when the men in red did them.

Did sirs definitely cost Tigers and England the win, impossible to say but in both cases he significantly reduced their opportunities to take the wins and as everyone says professional sport is a thing of fine margins...
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?

non possumus capere
mightymouse
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by mightymouse »

There are always fools who say foolish things especially on social media and I dare say a few of them get involved in rugby.
I’ve watched rugby all over the place since finishing playing and generally find all rugby fans great fun.
I can only remember two incidents in decades of support.. one was a Gloucester fan in the Captains bar after a Friday night game we had narrowly won. He got very argumentative and was going to be aggressive until his mate pulled him away thankfully.
The other was a more serious business was in Ellis park Johannesburg, where I was genuinely feared for my safety whilst watching the Lions in 97 but I think those blokes are on a different planet to other rugby fans!
Dangerous4
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by Dangerous4 »

MurphysLaw wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:44 pm Abuse and threats via social media are rife across all parts of life, and unfortunately rugby 'fans' are no exception.
This weekend's death threats made to Ellis Genge, and the abuse sent to the BBC reporter are the latest examples.
It's a huge and growing societal problem, and allowing the social media organisations to self-regulate will not work.

The Corporates on the lash is nothing new though.
Iv'e said before that Gloucester have many unsporting fans, and that is putting it mildly!
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by Crofty »

I know I've said the same in the Irish game thread but it probably suits this discussin at least as well, if not better.

I keep seeing a recurring theme here that seems to imply that if you notice any areas for improvement or express any frustration at mistakes, even ones you've seen multiple times before (i.e. lessons not being learned), you lack patience. After the last 5 seasons I don't think that anyone still here can be accused of not having patience.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?

non possumus capere
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Crofty wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:06 pm I know I've said the same in the Irish game thread but it probably suits this discussin at least as well, if not better.

I keep seeing a recurring theme here that seems to imply that if you notice any areas for improvement or express any frustration at mistakes, even ones you've seen multiple times before (i.e. lessons not being learned), you lack patience. After the last 5 seasons I don't think that anyone still here can be accused of not having patience.
I've not got issues with criticism, if it's balanced.
Personally I don't tend to criticise much in the aftermath, as for me that's more to celebrate or to congratulate the opposition, what can be said when riding the high emotions after a game can often come over significantly harsher than perhaps intended, certainly in my case I can be more level headed about it
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by ay2oh »

Can’t understand why people keep saying that we have been poor for the last 5 seasons. Yes the last two seasons we have finished 11th but the season before that we finished 5th and before that we finished in the play offs every season. I do agree that the writing was on the wall but things are now looking much brighter especially with the talent coming through from the academy
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by Goodevibrations »

There is a certain 'holier than thou' attitude that exists among rugby fans, which I think can be quite off-putting. I remember going to an evening hosted by Matt Dawson in the old clubhouse at Welford Road not long after bloodgate and a number of fans there were making comments along the lines of 'now I can't take the moral highground with my football-supporting friends'. I was sat there thinking 'is that the reason why you watch rugby?'. Constantly comparing rugby to other sports and giving it the 'we're better than you' alienates a number of people who be might be interested in following rugby. We can promote the sport without by highlighting everything that's good about it without drag other sports into it.
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by Crofty »

ay2oh wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:33 pm Can’t understand why people keep saying that we have been poor for the last 5 seasons. Yes the last two seasons we have finished 11th but the season before that we finished 5th and before that we finished in the play offs every season. I do agree that the writing was on the wall but things are now looking much brighter especially with the talent coming through from the academy
You've answered your own question here, this is exactly why the 5 year figure gets picked. It's the point at which the BoD's seeming feud with Cockers became undeniable and covers the Head Coach/DoR hokey kokey that's been a significant cause of our woes as a club.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?

non possumus capere
jgriffin
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by jgriffin »

Crofty wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:00 pm
ay2oh wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:33 pm Can’t understand why people keep saying that we have been poor for the last 5 seasons. Yes the last two seasons we have finished 11th but the season before that we finished 5th and before that we finished in the play offs every season. I do agree that the writing was on the wall but things are now looking much brighter especially with the talent coming through from the academy
You've answered your own question here, this is exactly why the 5 year figure gets picked. It's the point at which the BoD's seeming feud with Cockers became undeniable and covers the Head Coach/DoR hokey kokey that's been a significant cause of our woes as a club.
Which is what I blame for our woes. Not my uninformed judgement, a NZ player of my then acquaintance with very close conduits into Tigers identified 3 things about to go very wrong: Cockers at loggerheads with BoD over money for new players and coaches, certain 'superstars' resenting being treated otherwise and cutting up, plus poor defensive coaching.
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LE18
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Re: Has Rugby Got a Fan Problem?

Post by LE18 »

Dangerous4 wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:23 pm
MurphysLaw wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:44 pm Abuse and threats via social media are rife across all parts of life, and unfortunately rugby 'fans' are no exception.
This weekend's death threats made to Ellis Genge, and the abuse sent to the BBC reporter are the latest examples.
It's a huge and growing societal problem, and allowing the social media organisations to self-regulate will not work.

The Corporates on the lash is nothing new though.
Iv'e said before that Gloucester have many unsporting fans, and that is putting it mildly!
Agreed Gloucs 100%, both home and away.
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