May 17th Fans back in Stadiums....possibly?

[loretta]

It's coercion and it's illegal! Absolutely disgrace,oh well I'll watch on television, the amount of young people who want a vaccine just so they can go abroad and have a pint is nindblowing! And now they are after our kids too! They can stay the hell away from mine!

No it isn't, no it isn't, no it's not, up to you, probably, no they're not (whoever "they" are), parental choice.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

It's coercion and it's illegal! Absolutely disgrace,oh well I'll watch on television, the amount of young people who want a vaccine just so they can go abroad and have a pint is nindblowing! And now they are after our kids too! They can stay the hell away from mine!

It's not illegal WR is a private space, therefore the club can choose entry requirements as they see fit.
I am not happy about the ID cards by the back door which is the bigger issue.

[jgriffin]

As long as it’s not longterm, I don’t have any concerns. By the point Mattioli Woods Welford Road can have a full crowd in August you would hope all over 18s will have been offered one dose of the vaccine by then, so I don’t see a problem with having these measures. As Loretta says, we may object to this for political/ideological reasons, but I would rather some fans be able to go than none at all.

Medical objections to passports
1 vaccination is to stop you getting it worse NOT stopping you getting it or transmitting it (that's the job of masks and distancing)
2 LFT is near useless for detecting asymptomatic cases and 30-50% efficient for symptomatic.
This info is from BMA and BMJ
So the only issue is distancing.
I have been vaccinated and use LFTs twice weekly in my job BTW so no political or ideological objections to the jab, just an objection to something that most medics and scientists question.

[Tigerbeat]

The past year has been a difficult time for all and we all have our own views on vaccine etc . This thread is discussing the return of fans to stadiums rather than stating / arguing personal beliefs. Guidelines are in place that all are asked to follow. This is a Sports forum and we want to try to keep it a sporting environment although difficult at times with the pandemic.
Please try and stay on topic and keep personal stances on COVID /Vaccine etc from the discussion.
Thanks. Stay safe everyone and have a good weekend.

[JP14]

As long as it’s not longterm, I don’t have any concerns. By the point Mattioli Woods Welford Road can have a full crowd in August you would hope all over 18s will have been offered one dose of the vaccine by then, so I don’t see a problem with having these measures. As Loretta says, we may object to this for political/ideological reasons, but I would rather some fans be able to go than none at all.

Medical objections to passports
1 vaccination is to stop you getting it worse NOT stopping you getting it or transmitting it (that's the job of masks and distancing)
2 LFT is near useless for detecting asymptomatic cases and 30-50% efficient for symptomatic.
This info is from BMA and BMJ
So the only issue is distancing.
I have been vaccinated and use LFTs twice weekly in my job BTW so no political or ideological objections to the jab, just an objection to something that most medics and scientists question.

Fair enough, I would say I neither object or support the use of passports, just want fans back !

[mol2]

There is evidence that the vaccine does more than prevent severe illness/death, it probably prevents around 70% of infections. If you don’t get infected your chances of infecting someone else is effectively nil.

Masks at best reduce transmission but it’s not like the level of PPE used for Ebola!
Lateral flow tests are quick and cheap. Likewise the pressure to require them for entry to events may be driven by those who see it as a way of making a quick buck rather than impacting on safety.

Proper testing is slower and too expensive for sporting events.

As for legality there is a concern that vaccine passport requirements may discriminate against those who cannot be vaccinated. However genuine reasons for not being vaccinated are only applicable to a tiny, tiny fraction of the population. Also at the present not all of the population has been offered a vaccine and none are licensed for use in children, hardly fair on those who would willingly have the jab but not as yet able to have one.

[jgriffin]

There is evidence that the vaccine does more than prevent severe illness/death, it probably prevents around 70% of infections. If you don’t get infected your chances of infecting someone else is effectively nil.

(source? certainly not WHO.)

[LE18]

Both my wife and I certainly look forward to being able to return to WR, it will be great to know that others there will, like me, also have had their vaccinations, others who refuse will just have to continue watching on TV. I'm sorry if the younger and willing members who haven't had theirs yet cannot go, but I have faith that they wont allow them to be left out, the injections are proceeding at pace, just not the refuseniks.

[kk20gb30]

Great news if possible...however safety is the key issue.For me until a clear path is laid out (and even afterwards)there will be many issues to resolve - the nature and composite of the potential sporting gathering being perhaps the greatest.
Prior to any of this happening an awful lot more has to happen , and without being overly pessimistic it has never been the greatest idea to try to run before one can walk.Money and finance may well talk - but infection rates talk louder and longer , as we have experienced this past year.

[mol2]

There is evidence that the vaccine does more than prevent severe illness/death, it probably prevents around 70% of infections. If you don’t get infected your chances of infecting someone else is effectively nil.

(source? certainly not WHO.)

Think it was the BMJ as I recall from info gathered by NHS Scotland with the AZ vaccine.
The WHO make a lot of recommendations but don’t tend to be the publishers of peer reviewed studies.
(I used this to persuade a colleague who, earlier in the year, was undecided over vaccination because he felt might have been better used on someone at greater risk, to have it for the benefit of his patients)
There is also been a study showing a 40 % reduction in positive tests in the household contacts of healthcare workers who had been vaccinated compared to the households of those healthcare workers who had not been vaccinated. Can’t recall which journal I read that in. By inference this implies it reduces transmission.

I don’t think we should have vaccine passports, but we cannot prevent other countries from requiring them.

Ultimately I strongly believe that it is a matter of social responsibility for those who can be vaccinated to take up that offer when it comes. I appreciate that we can choose to take the risk with our own health but I wouldn’t be happy for the refuseniks to put the elderly, immune suppressed and those who legitimately cannot be immunised at risk.

The vaccine is not a panacea for life to return to normal overnight but part of that return.

[Yorkietiger]

I do not have an issue having the vaccine, I have had one dose and will get my second in early May. However I refuse to carry a Covid Passport, Certificate, ID Card or whatever the authorities are calling it today. I will not show one to go into a pub, or a shop, or a rugby stadium either. If that means I don't go to the pub, or Primark, or Welford Road then so be it. My stance on personal liberty and freedom trumps all else I am afraid.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

The club one presumes, will follow whatever method allows them to get the maximum number of people into the ground, from a business point of view & arguably spectator confidence & its difficult to argue with that.
The issue with how you show compliance is another matter, way beyond Rugby & beyond Covid.
I would personally prefer to avoid an "ID" cards, route, but do find amusement at people who are worried about a surveillance society & information gathering yet put their life up on Facepest/Stalkfest for all to see.

[tigerburnie]

I will not go into a stadium or other crowded environment without knowing it is safe to do so, so those owning those establishments now have to make a decision, if they want my money(and I dare say there are a lot more like me) they will have to convince me it is a safe environment (my wife is an at risk person). A passport type of system could work, though no doubt someone would be selling fake ones in no time at all, the same as people were wearing false NHS id during the lockdowns to carry on as they wished. To me this has nothing to do with personal freedom, we all carry a passport to go abroad, so there is absolutely no difference at all. Protecting peoples lives is far more important than some ill conceived thought about selfish and very thoughtless personal behaviour. This pandemic seems to have brought out the worst in society, never seen so much "me, me, me" in my life.

[Ian Cant]

Well written Tigerburnie. To get back to watching matches will be a liberating feeling so if I need a passport or need to wear a face ask great. So be it as the club will do what they believe is right to keep us safe. Well done the club and the politicians in extremely difficult times. Let sense prevail.
If others don’t want to comply then that’s fine- don’t support your club.
As you say, I too have had enough of some peoples attitudes over lockdown.
Respect and well being to all.
Hope some of us get to Welford Road this season or maybe to Twickenham for ThePremiership Final!!!

[TigerFeetSteve]

Just read the Welford Road weekly, seems that there are discussions afoot to move the Quins game at Welford Road (scheduled initially for the 15/16th May) into being a midweek fixture - though issues perhaps if we see ourselves into the Challenge cup 4 days later.

That move would mean fans able to go on possibly a Monday evening fixture.