England v Italy - 13th Feb at 14:15

[teds]

Farrell is a good player, who:

1. Can place kick well
2. Can follow a game plan
3. Has a good pass to the left
4. Does not get the red Mist
5. Is liked by Eddie Jones.

That’s all I’ve got.

It’s simply not enough to be considered world class, and certainly not enough to be undroppable.

We are now half way between world cups. England has one scrum half and 2 fly halves with bags of experience and leadership, and no-one else. We know what they can do. We need to get some backups with some experience. To an extent it doesn’t really matter whether it’s Robson, Randall, Simmons or Smith, but if they go into the World Cup with less than 10 hours of international experience as seems likely, they are going to be hugely undercooked.

[Robespierre]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the match and result is similar to the game in the last round of the 2020 Six Nations where the Italians put in a proper fight, we’re poor but still come away with a BP win.

.....and Eddie will think he’s justified in keeping the same team for the rest of the tournament!! There’s a World Cup in two years and now’s the time to give the opportunities to others in the place of those who aren’t performing (including you know who!) and those who’ll be past their best in 2023. Eddie’s selection policy is strange!! I really hope England struggle on Saturday and maybe Eddie will think again.

[LE18]

Farrell is a good player, who:

1. Can place kick well
2. Can follow a game plan
3. Has a good pass to the left
4. Does not get the red Mist
5. Is liked by Eddie Jones.

That’s all I’ve got.

It’s simply not enough to be considered world class, and certainly not enough to be undroppable.

We are now half way between world cups. England has one scrum half and 2 fly halves with bags of experience and leadership, and no-one else. We know what they can do. We need to get some backups with some experience. To an extent it doesn’t really matter whether it’s Robson, Randall, Simmons or Smith, but if they go into the World Cup with less than 10 hours of international experience as seems likely, they are going to be hugely undercooked.

Anyone ever suggested Farrell should be playing at full back? Wonder if he has ever played there? I think he would fit that position and not stymie our backs in a running and passing move.

[TigerBoy1880]

Farrell is a good player, who:

1. Can place kick well
2. Can follow a game plan
3. Has a good pass to the left
4. Does not get the red Mist
5. Is liked by Eddie Jones.

That’s all I’ve got.

It’s simply not enough to be considered world class, and certainly not enough to be undroppable.

We are now half way between world cups. England has one scrum half and 2 fly halves with bags of experience and leadership, and no-one else. We know what they can do. We need to get some backups with some experience. To an extent it doesn’t really matter whether it’s Robson, Randall, Simmons or Smith, but if they go into the World Cup with less than 10 hours of international experience as seems likely, they are going to be hugely undercooked.

Anyone ever suggested Farrell should be playing at full back? Wonder if he has ever played there? I think he would fit that position and not stymie our backs in a running and passing move.

I wouldn’t try to put him anywhere. Leave him out of the squad completely. Ford, Smith and Simmonds are the players to have at fly half going forward. Farrell can play in the Championship this season and then most likely back in the Premiership next season.

[LE18]

Farrell is a good player, who:

1. Can place kick well
2. Can follow a game plan
3. Has a good pass to the left
4. Does not get the red Mist
5. Is liked by Eddie Jones.

That’s all I’ve got.

It’s simply not enough to be considered world class, and certainly not enough to be undroppable.

We are now half way between world cups. England has one scrum half and 2 fly halves with bags of experience and leadership, and no-one else. We know what they can do. We need to get some backups with some experience. To an extent it doesn’t really matter whether it’s Robson, Randall, Simmons or Smith, but if they go into the World Cup with less than 10 hours of international experience as seems likely, they are going to be hugely undercooked.

Anyone ever suggested Farrell should be playing at full back? Wonder if he has ever played there? I think he would fit that position and not stymie our backs in a running and passing move.

I wouldn’t try to put him anywhere. Leave him out of the squad completely. Ford, Smith and Simmonds are the players to have at fly half going forward. Farrell can play in the Championship this season and then most likely back in the Premiership next season.

But if Eddie insisted on picking him, would that be a suitable alternative position?

[TigerBoy1880]

Anyone ever suggested Farrell should be playing at full back? Wonder if he has ever played there? I think he would fit that position and not stymie our backs in a running and passing move.

I wouldn’t try to put him anywhere. Leave him out of the squad completely. Ford, Smith and Simmonds are the players to have at fly half going forward. Farrell can play in the Championship this season and then most likely back in the Premiership next season.

But if Eddie insisted on picking him, would that be a suitable alternative position?

I don’t fancy Owen ‘no arms’ Farrell at full back!

[LE18]

I wouldn’t try to put him anywhere. Leave him out of the squad completely. Ford, Smith and Simmonds are the players to have at fly half going forward. Farrell can play in the Championship this season and then most likely back in the Premiership next season.

But if Eddie insisted on picking him, would that be a suitable alternative position?

I don’t fancy Owen ‘no arms’ Farrell at full back!

Fair point, what do others think?

[westwinds31]

Well the person in charge of Worcester Warriors twitter account is a bit miffed at the dropping of Lawrence judging by all the tweets they’ve been liking and rightly so, frankly I think Jones has treated the guy really poorly.

He’s not picked him for the match day squad vs Italy. I’m pretty sure he’s spoken to him and told him why, he’s in camp after all. We have no clue what’s been said. He may be keeping him for Cardiff, who knows ? To speculate that Jones has somehow removed him, made him a scapegoat for the Scotland game and not given any explanation is ludicrous.

[MCC1964]

Well much as I don’t like the selection, England and Eddie are in for a kicking whatever happens. Let’s say they beat Italy well and with an amount of panache. Not saying it will happen, but let’s assume. The response from ‘fans’ and media alike will be ‘well, it’s only Italy, so what have we really learned?’. Any other variations on the win / result and they’ll still get a kicking.

So it’s a lose / lose scenario whatever happens. All a bit sad really.

[JP14]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the match and result is similar to the game in the last round of the 2020 Six Nations where the Italians put in a proper fight, we’re poor but still come away with a BP win.

.....and Eddie will think he’s justified in keeping the same team for the rest of the tournament!! There’s a World Cup in two years and now’s the time to give the opportunities to others in the place of those who aren’t performing (including you know who!) and those who’ll be past their best in 2023. Eddie’s selection policy is strange!! I really hope England struggle on Saturday and maybe Eddie will think again.

It pains me as an Englishmen to say this, but absolument!!

[JP14]

Well the person in charge of Worcester Warriors twitter account is a bit miffed at the dropping of Lawrence judging by all the tweets they’ve been liking and rightly so, frankly I think Jones has treated the guy really poorly.

He’s not picked him for the match day squad vs Italy. I’m pretty sure he’s spoken to him and told him why, he’s in camp after all. We have no clue what’s been said. He may be keeping him for Cardiff, who knows ? To speculate that Jones has somehow removed him, made him a scapegoat for the Scotland game and not given any explanation is ludicrous.

No doubt Eddie would have told the guy his reasons in camp but that doesn't detract from the fact that Lawrence has unreasonably taken the hit for the performance (alongside Wilson) when it wasn't his fault he got the ball. Have some guts and drop the players who were responsible, ie Farrell, instead.

[MCC1964]

Well the person in charge of Worcester Warriors twitter account is a bit miffed at the dropping of Lawrence judging by all the tweets they’ve been liking and rightly so, frankly I think Jones has treated the guy really poorly.

He’s not picked him for the match day squad vs Italy. I’m pretty sure he’s spoken to him and told him why, he’s in camp after all. We have no clue what’s been said. He may be keeping him for Cardiff, who knows ? To speculate that Jones has somehow removed him, made him a scapegoat for the Scotland game and not given any explanation is ludicrous.

No doubt Eddie would have told the guy his reasons in camp but that doesn't detract from the fact that Lawrence has unreasonably taken the hit for the performance (alongside Wilson) when it wasn't his fault he got the ball. Have some guts and drop the players who were responsible, ie Farrell, instead.

Or of course it could be he wants to play different tactics against Italy and he doesn’t want a crash ball merchant in the centre.

[kk20gb30]

Ollie Lawrence can consider himself unfortunate - there were/are those more culpable than he for England's performance and demise versus Scotland.
Eddie Jones is his own man and we should realise by now that the greater the clamor for something the less likely it is of happening.

[BFG]

I'm not surprised by the England selection against Italy.
Disappointed but not surprised.
Every poor performance or bad result throws up certain English fall guys and a certain few will always survive, they have to for continuities sake otherwise they'll be disorganised to the point where nothing else matters.
It's always the same few that survive with England.
They are starting to become something of an embarrassment.
I've heard it said that Eddie is slowly proving to be an underdog coach, not sure about this, but perhaps instead he might just be past it for the scale of the job in hand.
I think that longer term and the staleness of Eddie's reign will require a younger coach with the strength and the energy to handle the job who isn't reliant on certain players running the camp for him.

[mol2]

Some of the the selection changes remind me of the England cricket team back in the 1990s.

In response to a defeat to Australia caused by woeful batting their response was to drop a fast bowler in the form of Devon Malcolm.

In response to a lack of leadership and creativity they drop the centre that the fly half only passed to a couple of times in the entire match.

It might be a relatively young England team but there has to be an element of recognition that some players have stopped progressing and need time away in the wilderness to show they deserve to return or that they are simply stars that shone brightly early on intheir careers only to fizzle out. I look at Farrell in particular. Not there as a leader, has the same flaws in his game that he has had since junior days. Tackling relatively high - which worked when he was the big kid but when you tackle bigger men it doesn't work. Attacking flair is limited and doesn't offer a threat so makes it easier to close down the centres.

The same applies to the coaches. The bish bash bosh approach stops working when other sides are big enough to deal with it without worrying about commiting players to cover runners. Players like Ollie Lawrence need the ball to let the opposition know they have to commit resorces to him in the same way sides know they have to for Manu. If you don't give players like that the ball at all, sides don't worry about them and the space for Slade and the wings isn't created.