Sort the tackle area out, please!

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ourla
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by ourla »

GETHIN EXILE wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:35 pm What is illegal is the latched on players going to ground on top of the ball carrier when a tackle is made - they have a duty to stay on their feet and form a ruck. The other big issue is the first players from the ball carrier's side dropping to 1 knee on arrival at the tackle or placing their hands in front of the ball carrier on the floor, there was a time when you find that the incoming defenders would stand on your fingers if you had a hand on the ground. I am not suggesting a return to this just that players be reminded that once any part of them other than the soles of the feet is on the ground they have a duty to roll away.
Yeah, I think my perception is that this is an area that has been let slide aswell meaning defences get more frustrated/aggressive in trying to create turnovers.
DingDong
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by DingDong »

BengalTiger wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:05 amIf the laws were applied there is no need to clear out the jackaller, just touching him renders him in an illegal position
'Contact' is not just touching, it is interpreted as binding, so just touching the jackaller does not form a ruck.
BengalTiger
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by BengalTiger »

DingDong wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:04 pm
BengalTiger wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:05 amIf the laws were applied there is no need to clear out the jackaller, just touching him renders him in an illegal position
'Contact' is not just touching, it is interpreted as binding, so just touching the jackaller does not form a ruck.
Your point about binding is for players joining the ruck not creating a ruck situation in the first place but the law is very clear-

"A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground."

Players involved in all stages of the ruck must have their heads and shoulders no lower than their hips.

The point is there is no need to clear out the jackaller, making contact is enough to take him out of the equation, make contact with him and you create a ruck, if his head is below his hips he is in an illegal position, if he has already lifted he ball this is no longer a ruck situation but open play and he can be tackled as normal.
If the referees enforced these two points of the current laws it would stop a lot of dangerous play we are seeing at the moment and clean up the tackle area. IMHO
TigerCam
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by TigerCam »

ourla wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:34 am
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:25 am
ourla wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:08 am Forgive me, I only played a bit of schoolboy rugby and only watched a bit in the old days. When people talk about bringing back "rucking" I believe they mean players running their studs down the back/front of an opponent lying on the wrong side of the ruck. Is that correct?
Correct, it had to be a "raking" motion (picture using your studs to roll the ball/player backwards, so foot front to back) to try and pull then out of the way not a downwards stamp. Therefore essentially trying to assist them in what they're "supposed" to be doing in rolling out of the way.
Thanks. I guess that raking differentiates it from stamping which was always illegal?

Still, I fail to see how that doesn't result in injury, all be it mostly superficial such as scratching and bruising.

A moot point I feel as I can't see any circumstance it will be allowed again.
The Jack Willis injury is a good example. Crocodile / Neck rolls wouldn't happen with players bound and on their feet. Yes, I caught a stud or two playing back in the 70 -80's, mainly playing in Wales but being English didn't help - only a couple of clubs would go out of their way to make a 'national' point. You learned very quickly to get out of there and you had your own players helping by driving the ruck and shooting you out the back.
Whoever said "one person cannot change the world' never ate undercooked bat
DingDong
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by DingDong »

BengalTiger wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:28 am
DingDong wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:04 pm
BengalTiger wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:05 amIf the laws were applied there is no need to clear out the jackaller, just touching him renders him in an illegal position
'Contact' is not just touching, it is interpreted as binding, so just touching the jackaller does not form a ruck.
Your point about binding is for players joining the ruck not creating a ruck situation in the first place but the law is very clear-

"A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground."

Players involved in all stages of the ruck must have their heads and shoulders no lower than their hips.

The point is there is no need to clear out the jackaller, making contact is enough to take him out of the equation, make contact with him and you create a ruck, if his head is below his hips he is in an illegal position, if he has already lifted he ball this is no longer a ruck situation but open play and he can be tackled as normal.
If the referees enforced these two points of the current laws it would stop a lot of dangerous play we are seeing at the moment and clean up the tackle area. IMHO
My point is that you cannot create a ruck by simply touching, you have to bind and that is relevant to all these scenarios. Same as being in a maul or a back row in a scrum, you have to bind, just touching is not enough. In a tackle you have to hold (there's a difference to holding and binding!) the player and take them to ground, touching is not enough. The law book is full of grey areas but at least refs are generally consistent about the binding.
BFG
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by BFG »

I don't disagree with BengalTiger's assessment, but the laws can present problems.
I do recall that players were taking up their legal positions over the ball to attempt to create a ruck and were then being bulldozed by out of control clear outs.
It became very dangerous and ultimately led to body positions lowering in avoidance.
Tackle situations were similarly affected as the force of players has led to more sprawling bodies.
If the game went back to totally enforcing the laws then for me players being in control of their momentum would be crucial factor and more onus would have to be on the tackler or clear out players to be in control.
Defenders get away with too much in my opinion.
BengalTiger
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by BengalTiger »

The very term "clear out" is an anathema to the laws of rugby and should not be tolerated let alone accommodated by law interpretations that make the situation even more dangerous.
BFG
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Re: Sort the tackle area out, please!

Post by BFG »

BengalTiger wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:16 pm The very term "clear out" is an anathema to the laws of rugby and should not be tolerated let alone accommodated by law interpretations that make the situation even more dangerous.
Agreed and "the hit" is another.
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