Progress Under Borthwick

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Bunchy
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by Bunchy » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:32 am

Well - a tough question as the replies so far indicate.
Progress? - for me yes
We can now scrummage
We can rely on the lineout much more
We are much fitter
We stay in games - 14 nil down at home to bath would have been a massacre in previous 2/3 seasons
Defence is much better
We are playing the promising academy lads

Work still to do - well lots but some thoughts
Attacking ideas - we still seem formulaic and devoid of alternative plans should plan A not work
Squad balance - alternative number 10 for me necessary (just my opinion)
Getting the wins - still losing too many games at home especially

So for me the pluses outweigh the minuses so thats progress - i think realistically this season we are in a 6 team mini league at the bottom and real progress, covid impact or not, will be finishing at the top end of this mini league..
Less is more....

LE18
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by LE18 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:32 pm

We have a much improved squad, some great signings, no depending on loan players, we must have improved its just now a case of getting settled/combinations of players regularly onto the pitch and improving the game plan, i'm sure it will come as long as they recognise when its time to stop the box kicking and get the ball out to our talented backs.

RagingBull
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by RagingBull » Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:49 pm

I feel it’s pretty clear we have.

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:34 pm

Certainly!
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

LE18
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by LE18 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:11 pm

LE18 wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:32 pm
We have a much improved squad, some great signings, no depending on loan players, we must have improved its just now a case of getting settled/combinations of players regularly onto the pitch and improving the game plan, i'm sure it will come as long as they recognise when its time to stop the box kicking and get the ball out to our talented backs.
I think we showed this today, although all the tries came from our forwards.

Goodevibrations
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by Goodevibrations » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:40 pm

Defensively we look far more organised, our set pieces are generally solid and we appear to have recruited well with the likes of Wiese, Van Wyk, Brink etc. We're by no means easy on the eye, but we have an identity which I felt was lacking under Geordan. We're not top four challengers, but I knew progress wasn't going to be that quick, but I am undoubtedly seeing progress. In Steve I trust.

RichieB
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by RichieB » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:50 pm

After the ‘Quin’s match yesterday, been thinking about this.

1) Recognise and appreciate the positives and development. There has been plenty of this and overall it feels a little better than it was 12 months ago in terms of performance on the pitch. Examples are recruitment of quality players such as Montoya, Wiese - Liebenberg settled really well and becoming a key player - some of the youngsters stepping up such as Steward, Martin, JVP - improved physical fitness/stamina under Alex’s guidance. Probably other positives as well, these are just ones immediately off the top of my head (rolling maul seems to be getting there, esp v Wuss)

2) Recognise and take action to address the negatives. There are plenty of these too, some of these issues are no different than they were under Murphy and that is disappointing - poor/inconsistent tactical kicking - giving away too many easy tries (breakaway/intercepts - nearly 2 more of these from ‘Quins game alone) - discipline issues,
particularly around yellow cards (3 in last 2 games) - player and coach churn, whilst inevitable it can’t be healthy to have an unsettled team with the likes of Taufua leaving early whatever the reason - communication from SB hasn’t been as good as it was with Murphy, he is clearly not as comfortable in front of camera and I don’t like the lack of honesty and transparency in the comma (though still some great work from Sam W in that respect) - scrum performance deteriorated generally since Boris left. Again, probably other things to put right, these just spring to mind. :smt031

RagingBull
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by RagingBull » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:53 pm

As a mind-set

"There was one or two due to injuries," said Borthwick. "I don't use the term rotation. I pick a team that I expect to go out and win games. Ultimately there was an opportunity there to put ourselves in a position to win the game and we didn't take them and we let them score too easily, we conceded too easily. If we eradicated those errors we would've been in a far more advantageous position to win the game.


That is already a progress IMO.

mol2
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by mol2 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:12 pm

We have made progress but we also have work to do on attack, defence and some gaps in the playing staff.

There is a huge gap at fly half with Ford away.
Centres - losing Manu was a huge blow and none of the ones are really there at top of Premiership level. Taute has the ability but his lack of speed is readily exposed the others are some way back.
This is the area that is holding us back.

We have wings and full backs capable of doing a job (although the wings we have are not quick enough to make the kicking game work) but are not getting the ball in space because the midfield is not effective in attack.

The forward play has developed and we are now using Lavannini effectively, just before he leaves. Shame we have lost Taufua as he has been the outstanding back row over the past couple of seasons but the new players look to giving us a back row with power.
Last edited by mol2 on Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

simoscribbler
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by simoscribbler » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:17 pm

Better in most respects, especially in the forwards. But we are still a mid table outfit I'd say, so lots to do. But there are some shining lights: a handful of really strong, committed overseas recruits who are available all season, and some really superb youngsters. JVP and Steward are going to be international players soon, and Martin looks like a huge talent too.

Years ago I suggested on here that the DoR should have a requirement to bring through three young players (ideally from our academy) every year, and this year they have delivered genuine starter standard players. Recruit young Lynagh and he can count as one of next years....

RagingBull
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by RagingBull » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:25 pm

This year I would say
Martin, JVP and Steward are breakouts from the academy with Kelly, Henderson and Chessum 3 other youngsters who are breaking out from elsewhere.

My hope next year would be Browning, Ilione and Whitcombe start coming into the scene a bit more.
I'm also hoping Tigers might try and look at either pinching or scouting a couple more players like Bath U20 Number 8 Nahum Merigan, IF Worcester replace Wier maybe look at their 10 Finn Smith for example.

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:48 pm

mol2 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:12 pm

There is a huge gap at fly half with Ford away.
This is why I'd like to shuffle the team a bit to give Bonilla a run at fly half.

Unless we know he's on his way then he does have the capacity to be that guy.

Anyone good at family history needs to get in touch with the club and find some Italian heritage in Montoya, Moroni or Bonilla so we can play them together... (or fingers crossed even better one of them has an application being processed)
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

RagingBull
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by RagingBull » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:37 pm

I just really like the way he talks
https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status ... 67393?s=20

Noggs
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by Noggs » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:58 am

To my mind there has been lots of progress on show. As the team becomes more settled and players learn to predict play better I can only see steady ongoing improvement as the season progresses.

Next week is a big challenge, particularly with the loss of key players, but I was not overly impressed with Bristol's performance this week and without the two interception tries who knows? Piutau and Naulago are both brilliant and dangerous players and there combination for the fourth try was some of the best running rugby I've seen for some time. The job of closing them down will not be easy.

At the moment I expect us to finish in the top half of the Table. Hopefully I am not being too optimistic :smt038
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

simoscribbler
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Re: Progress Under Borthwick

Post by simoscribbler » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:47 pm

Huge improvement, and credit to all involved. It is the Sarries playbook really: really good SA players - plus islanders and Argentinians - and a limited game plan, based round fitness, defence and kicking. And, like Sarries, we do have home grown youngsters of international quality coming through: Martin, JVP and Steward look like international class to me, and others are coming through I understand - and we will need them if we are to challenge over the next 3-5 years. Here's hoping, but the signs are good. SB has no issue playing the youngsters - Steward is playing FB in front of a seriously good player.

Obviously we have a short term issue after the red cards, but for the first time in years it does feel like we finally are on the up.

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