6 NATIONS 2021

[MCC1964]

The Championship is gone for England now, so lets use the remainder of the tournament to build for the future. (So long as you're not just trying not to get fired)

Bring in Simmonds for Lawes into the squad, then I'd select this team:

15 Malins
14 Watson
13 Odogwu
12 Lawrence
11 May
10 Ford
9 Youngs
1 Genge
2 Cowan-Dickie
3 Sinkler
4 Itoje
5 Ewels
6 Curry
7 Earl
8 Vunipola

16 George
17 Vunipola
18 Stuart
19 Martin
20 Simmonds
21 Robson
22 Farrell
23 Slade

Love that team to be fair. Personally I’d swap Billy for Dombrandt, and Farrell for M. Smith but can’t see Eddie doing that...

That’s exactly what I thought!

But can he actually bring new players into the bubble? Is there time now?

[kk20gb30]

Best Welsh performance under Wayne Pivac by some way. Hard exactly to gauge though due to the circumstances of the game but lets give at least some credit.
Referee had his 'eccentricities' but can't be blamed for either English indiscipline or lack of focus at crucial times.With the title now gone it could be argued that England could experiment some ,equally however, Eddie J may want to stick to what/who he knows and attempt to play them back to form.

[kk20gb30]

Apparently, further French participation in this seasons 6 Nations under question :

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/governme ... x-nations/

[Scott1]

It’s done now,we move on. Wales move a step towards stealing another GS while we lick our wounds. Changes needed and now it’s about building for the 2023 RWC. The MF and FB are the areas which need to be fixed immediately as well as putting Hill and Wilson out to pasture,not international quality. Have a feeling Jones could go though with another loss or two.

[JP14]

.....and her name is Sonja.

That was autocorrect on my part, apologies.

[Traveller]

+1

This is what I can’t stand about Eddie Jones.

What benefits him & England in the long term, time training with England or playing 80mins for Tigers today?

What would have benefitted him and the England team would to have been in a forward looking squad, alongside other high performing young individuals attempting to build a side for the next world cup.

Pivac had eight players in his starting line up over the age of 30 (two 32, one 34, another 35), so if Jone is going to be criticised for not thinking about the future, then dear me Pivac who is in blatant 'Pivac Survival' mode. Yet he gets away with the 'building for the future gibberish'.

None of which is to say that there clearly aren't serious problems in the England set up right now. Try as I might, I find Farrell difficult to warm. I hope it's not the fact that he's a Saracen. I don't think it is. I don't feel the same way about Kruis, Itoje, Mako, Earl.Really admired Brad B. I don't wish it on him, but it would be interesting to see what happened if he was out for a prolonged period through injury how England would readjust, because they would have to.

[Traveller]

What benefits him & England in the long term, time training with England or playing 80mins for Tigers today?

What would have benefitted him and the England team would to have been in a forward looking squad, alongside other high performing young individuals attempting to build a side for the next world cup.

Pivac had eight players in his starting line up 30+ (two 32, one 34, another 35), so if Jone is going to be criticised for not thinking about the future, then dear me Pivac who is in blatant 'Pivac Survival' mode. Yet he gets away with the 'building for the future gibberish'.

None of which is to say that there clearly aren't serious problems in the England set up right now. Try as I might, I find Farrell difficult to warm. I hope it's not the fact that he's a Saracen. I don't think it is. I don't feel the same way about Kruis, Itoje, Mako, Earl.Really admired Brad B. I don't wish it on him, but it would be interesting to see what happened if he was out for a prolonged period through injury how England would readjust, because they would have to.

[BFG]

I thought that the first two Welsh tries were poor officiating.
England clearly weren't set for the first as Sir has asked the skipper to speak to his players and the Welsh player had lost control of the ball forward for the second.
These two tries created a false pressure on England.
What I think England did do wrong was make silly substitutions when the team is in the ascendancy.
This is the coaches fault and he has form for it.
Jones seems to have this consistent playbook of making substitutions just for the sake of making substitutions.
When a team is playing well let it continue.
When players are cold don't throw them into a fire.
Experiment in less meaningful matches.
England almost resemble some sort of bad mini team where all the favourites get some minutes and the kids the coach doesn't quite like yet get left out.

[Dokie]

Having listened to the analysis and watched the replays, I can understand why the second one was given, as when he dropped it, the ball shot backwards off his lower leg.
We did get away with one on the first try though!

Nigel Owens disagrees, he said if you knock it forward at any point you must regain control before it hits the ground not just have a subsequent contact that knocks it back, it doesn't matter that overall direction was backwards.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... k-19932005

I can understand it being given. Agreeing with it is something different. If we were on the end of it, I wouldn’t have been ecstatic!

[Big Dai]

I thought that the first two Welsh tries were poor officiating.
England clearly weren't set for the first as Sir has asked the skipper to speak to his players and the Welsh player had lost control of the ball forward for the second.
These two tries created a false pressure on England.
What I think England did do wrong was make silly substitutions when the team is in the ascendancy.
This is the coaches fault and he has form for it.
Jones seems to have this consistent playbook of making substitutions just for the sake of making substitutions.
When a team is playing well let it continue.
When players are cold don't throw them into a fire.
Experiment in less meaningful matches.
England almost resemble some sort of bad mini team where all the favourites get some minutes and the kids the coach doesn't quite like yet get left out.

Loving the mini team analogy! Where's the Like button on this thing?

[Nofrontteeth]

Is it safe to come in? Has the Anglo/Welsh 'hatefest' calmed down?

As a Tigers/Scotland supporter with nothing better to do today may I comment:-
Try 1
"Go speak to your team" without any agreed time scale is inadequate by both the ref and captain. Anytime during the next huddle (set play)? ASAP? or other undefined period.
"You have/give me 1 minute to talk to your/my team" would have helped.
I believe there's no statutory time within the laws for such ref directives.

In a virtually empty stadium with every foul word being heard couldn't Farrell just turn and shout " Lads the ref wants us to cut out the :censored:"!

Judgement Try 1 - Not proven as there was no breach of Law as there is no Law. Caveat natural justice and spirit of the game breached.

Try 2
With 6 decades in my rugby logbook the vagueries of what is considered a knock on still confuses.
A scenario ' whilst rapid passing a receiver grasps at pass and fumbles. Ball drops forward and punted forward towards the try line. Player from onside runs and downs the ball for 5pts. Try or no try?
Instead of punt think calf now try or no try?
When does a player 'lose control of the ball' ? Every time it leaves his hands intended or not?

Judgement Try 2 - Try!
Ball not passed forward to ground but kicked off calf.

England have the player resources for better but poor discipline.




.

[MCC1964]

Is it safe to come in? Has the Anglo/Welsh 'hatefest' calmed down?

As a Tigers/Scotland supporter with nothing better to do today may I comment:-
Try 1
"Go speak to your team" without any agreed time scale is inadequate by both the ref and captain. Anytime during the next huddle (set play)? ASAP? or other undefined period.
"You have/give me 1 minute to talk to your/my team" would have helped.
I believe there's no statutory time within the laws for such ref directives.

In a virtually empty stadium with every foul word being heard couldn't Farrell just turn and shout " Lads the ref wants us to cut out the cr×p"!

Judgement Try 1 - Not proven as there was no breach of Law as there is no Law. Caveat natural justice and spirit of the game breached.

Try 2
With 6 decades in my rugby logbook the vagueries of what is considered a knock on still confuses.
A scenario ' whilst rapid passing a receiver grasps at pass and fumbles. Ball drops forward and punted forward towards the try line. Player from onside runs and downs the ball for 5pts. Try or no try?
Instead of punt think calf now try or no try?
When does a player 'lose control of the ball' ? Every time it leaves his hands intended or not?

Judgement Try 2 - Try!
Ball not passed forward to ground but kicked off calf.

England have the player resources for better but poor discipline.

Now where's that Laphroig? Slainte Mhath!


.

With regards to the ‘tries’ I will take my opinion from ref Nigel Owens, by most people’s opinion the one of the best refs in the world, who said that neither try should have been awarded. 100%. So end of any speculation on that front. As to the effect on the game? Who knows. It is very much a game of momentum. Had that first try been disallowed, we cannot say whatever did actually follow from that point would still have happened (space time continuum and all that). Anything is pure speculation. For me? I though at 24-24 they had done superbly well in coming back and had Wales absolutely in the cross-hairs. Despite the ill discipline I thought England the better side.

And then the Johnny Hill incident giving away a pen with Eliot Daly joggin back to our try line with his back tuned. That sums it up to me. England were very dumb for most of the match.

But they haven’t whinged about the reffing, despite some provocative questioning (and of the Wales captain too) so kudos to them for that. But it’s done. Time to move on and hopefully Eddie now changes tack. Including dropping Elliot Daly at least (in my opinion).

[jgriffin]

That woman has a name, Sonia, and was doing her job, what was she supposed to ask Farrell? What are you having for tea?

https://tinyl.io/3biQ

The misogynists on here need to examine their moral compasses. Utterly inexcusable.

[BFG]

I have major doubts about the second Welsh try.
For example, a player knocks the ball from a pass up and forward over rushing defenders, then kicks on and scores.
Whether it's 10cm or 10m it's forward.

[Nofrontteeth]

MCC1964 I too accept NO as a "Gud 'un'. Yes as with all human activities with rules, regs and laws there is room for subjective personal views and interpretations hence Forums like ours.
Nigel's big assets are clear control and communication. He'll tell you the clocks off you're got 1 minute. Not a modern day 100 word max twitter message leaving loads of assumption.
We have a split jury.

My Doctor said take plenty of liquids but didn't define what.
Take care