6 NATIONS 2021

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BengalTiger
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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by BengalTiger » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:35 am

I have rarely seen such biased refereeing as from Barnes last night, he is a referee who I have the greatest respect for but his performance was shocking, consistently favouring the Scots, his refusal to check the first try was strange to say the least, his refusal to yellow card a Scot after 3 consecutive penalties on their own goal line went beyond anything I can understand, the tackle by the scrum-half on the French player without the ball should have been a yellow, no matter that the player managed to ground the ball and score despite the foul, Barnes should have still given a yellow for a cynical foul.

Barnes needs to review this match and then look himself in the mirror, I have no axe to grind but hate to see referees have an undue influence on the games outcome.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:55 am

I wonder what the view of some would of been if England had needed Scotland to win to top the 6N....some of same people pointing fingers at Barnes also criticised the Red Card.
If France had tried to win the game first rather than score 4 tries first the result would of been different.
As for the the non Yellow Card for Price, not sure how the law works here, it was foul play but it didn't prevent the try being scored so can a yellow be given? In some ways a Penalty Try would be an injustice to the quality of the move getting there.

For the first time in many years I actually watched all the games in the 6N & compared to the Autumn nonsense the games were a far better watch & for the last 2 games to be won with the clock in the Red by a try was a fitting conclusion.
Even Italy looked to play some Rugby & that in itself is a major change & with a bit of luck with injuries will become more competitive as there's is a young squad.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:59 am

As a neutral I think three key decisions or lack of helped swing last nights result in my opinion.
The first was the opening Scotland try being a double movement.
The second was the ridiculous amount of Scottish penalties that were allowed whilst defending their line in the first half, it went on for so long that France blew themselves out.
The third was the late sealing off decision against France whilst Scotland were clearly sealing off themselves in the phases leading to the winning try.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by JP14 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:12 am

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:55 am
I wonder what the view of some would of been if England had needed Scotland to win to top the 6N....some of same people pointing fingers at Barnes also criticised the Red Card.
If France had tried to win the game first rather than score 4 tries first the result would of been different.
As for the the non Yellow Card for Price, not sure how the law works here, it was foul play but it didn't prevent the try being scored so can a yellow be given? In some ways a Penalty Try would be an injustice to the quality of the move getting there.

For the first time in many years I actually watched all the games in the 6N & compared to the Autumn nonsense the games were a far better watch & for the last 2 games to be won with the clock in the Red by a try was a fitting conclusion.
Even Italy looked to play some Rugby & that in itself is a major change & with a bit of luck with injuries will become more competitive as there's is a young squad.
My bold, 100% agree. I think the media on both sides of the channel is to blame for this, trying to speculate how much France were going to win by instead of who was going to win. I felt bad for the Scots in some way, in no way did they set out to win to return the favour of 1999, they wanted to win to secure their highest finish since the Championship was extended from the Millennium and were unlucky that in some respects that they finished 4th.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Traveller » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:41 am

BengalTiger wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:35 am
I have rarely seen such biased refereeing as from Barnes last night, he is a referee who I have the greatest respect for but his performance was shocking, consistently favouring the Scots, his refusal to check the first try was strange to say the least, his refusal to yellow card a Scot after 3 consecutive penalties on their own goal line went beyond anything I can understand, the tackle by the scrum-half on the French player without the ball should have been a yellow, no matter that the player managed to ground the ball and score despite the foul, Barnes should have still given a yellow for a cynical foul.

Barnes needs to review this match and then look himself in the mirror, I have no axe to grind but hate to see referees have an undue influence on the games outcome.
I didn't watch enough of the game last night to comment on Barnes, who I believe is an excellent referee. However it's difficult to know how the game moves forward. The six-eight best referees in the world seem to referee in completely different ways from games to game, sometimes within a game. It has almost, though maybe not quite, got to the point that they effectively dictate the outcome. In the Scotland v Ireland game in the Scottish SH was suddenly penalised for a not straight put in (please). The arbitrary application of warning / yellow card in the 22 should be simple enough, but it is entirely arbitrary. As for being offside in front of the kicker, advantage, don't get me started.

I played a lot of basketball as a kid and have always felt that the team foul / personal foul rules should be applied to rugby. As soon as you get over x or y team fouls (most coaches seem to talk about 8-10 penalties a game being the magic number). Its a shot from in front of the posts from the 22. As an individual player, I don't know what the number would be (maybe 3). Three personal penalties and your game is over. Your team can bring another player on, but you're gone for the afternoon. I bet you Itoje would stop giving away dumb penalties. It forces you to become collectively and individually disciplined in defence.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Tiglon » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 am

Barnes is the best referee in the world, but I do disagree with some of his decisions yesterday evening. Even so, to call his actions "criminal", "disgusting", "biased" and "awful" is just outrageous.

It's not Barnes who needs to have a look in the mirror, it's some of you on here. Either you don't understand the meaning of the words you're using (in which case consult a dictionary before you use them again) or you have a less than firm grip on reality.

So an outstanding professional perhaps didn't perform quite as well as he usually does? It happens to everyone and I'm pretty confident he's still far better at what he does than any of us are at what we do.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:17 am

Big Dai wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:34 am
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:07 am
Surprised by the views on here regarding the red card. You can't lead with the forearm in any circumstance so he was always going to be leaving the field. In the neck area was just foolish so had to be a red. Saying it was stopping a head on head or a high tackle is ridiculous. You can't stop a hypothetical. It's like saying illegally clearing out a ruck is OK because it prevented a player potentially gouging someone in the ruck.

I thought Barnes was pretty even to both teams. He seemed to let more go than usual, expected him to start showing yellow cards earlier but don't think France should have many complaints.
On the subject of red cards there seemed to be another high shot in the final series of plays as the ball came out to the backs. I've lost the recording so can't go back over it.... Any thoughts?
Without seeing replays then I'm not sure which incident TBH. I did call out that a few tackles looked high throughout the game but as the TMO/ref didn't seem to call them out and there were no replays I guess they weren't/were missed.

There was never really a threat of France winning by a big enough margin. Watching as a neutral there really didn't seem to be any major calls that were wrong or obvious favouritism - the "double movement" maybe, but in real time it wasn't obvious. Both sides seemed to have periods of pressure and discipline issues and IMO Barnes seemed to be fair to both sides.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Dokie » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:19 am

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 am
Barnes is the best referee in the world, but I do disagree with some of his decisions yesterday evening. Even so, to call his actions "criminal", "disgusting", "biased" and "awful" is just outrageous.

It's not Barnes who needs to have a look in the mirror, it's some of you on here. Either you don't understand the meaning of the words you're using (in which case consult a dictionary before you use them again) or you have a less than firm grip on reality.

So an outstanding professional perhaps didn't perform quite as well as he usually does? It happens to everyone and I'm pretty confident he's still far better at what he does than any of us are at what we do.
Great post 👍

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Traveller » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:27 am

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 am
Barnes is the best referee in the world, but I do disagree with some of his decisions yesterday evening. Even so, to call his actions "criminal", "disgusting", "biased" and "awful" is just outrageous.

It's not Barnes who needs to have a look in the mirror, it's some of you on here. Either you don't understand the meaning of the words you're using (in which case consult a dictionary before you use them again) or you have a less than firm grip on reality.

So an outstanding professional perhaps didn't perform quite as well as he usually does? It happens to everyone and I'm pretty confident he's still far better at what he does than any of us are at what we do.
I agree with you on the criminal, disgusting, awful. I was going to write as much about the used of the word 'biased' as well, because for me that seems to be a terrible thing to say about a referee and against the spirit of the game. I've always interpreted it as meaning a referee entering the field intent on favouring one team unfairly. So I did look up the word before writing a little earlier. The strict dictionary definition indicates that something can be 'biased' without an intent. I hate it when supporters call referees 'biased' because it seems to question the essence of the person, but technically it could be used, without the user intending to undermine the integrity of the ref. A harsher word - incompetent - is seldom used but its dictionary meaning is simply to lack the skills, attributes to fulfil a particular task competently. I think it is fair to say that the referee in the Wales v England game was incompetent.

For the record I think Barnes is a great ref.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Dokie » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:41 am

Traveller wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:06 am
I know there is another thread on this subject and so I won't Labour the point but, thinking about last night. If the Lions are picked primarily on the basis of the 6N performances it's very difficult to imagine many English players journeying south. There will be hell to pay if a New Zealand coach leaves behind lots of Scottish players who have put their hands up and played, in favour of lots of Englishmen who haven't. Wales are bound to have a big chunk of the places and so too Ireland. This time around England should fulfilll the traditional Scottish role. Maybe more than two but not much more than four or five.
I think the Scots are unfortunate insofar that many of their better players are in positions where the Lions have strength in depth, so they are again likely to have the lowest representation.
Hogg and Russell will be selected
VD Merwe is suspect in defence, like James Lowe, so I’d go for the Welsh and English wings.
Harris and Johnson aren’t as good as the Welsh and Irish centres.
I expect Sutherland to be picked. For McInally to make it, George or C-Dickie would have to miss out. Gray is in a straight fight with Henderson for the last second row berth. And Ritchie and Watson should go. So we’re only looking at 5/6.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:00 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 am
Barnes is the best referee in the world, but I do disagree with some of his decisions yesterday evening. Even so, to call his actions "criminal", "disgusting", "biased" and "awful" is just outrageous.

It's not Barnes who needs to have a look in the mirror, it's some of you on here. Either you don't understand the meaning of the words you're using (in which case consult a dictionary before you use them again) or you have a less than firm grip on reality.

So an outstanding professional perhaps didn't perform quite as well as he usually does? It happens to everyone and I'm pretty confident he's still far better at what he does than any of us are at what we do.
Nail and head come to mind here...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by JP14 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:01 pm

It's a shame Redpath got injured, had he not I suspect he too could have thrown himself into the Lions mix.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by BFG » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:09 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 am
Barnes is the best referee in the world, but I do disagree with some of his decisions yesterday evening. Even so, to call his actions "criminal", "disgusting", "biased" and "awful" is just outrageous.

It's not Barnes who needs to have a look in the mirror, it's some of you on here. Either you don't understand the meaning of the words you're using (in which case consult a dictionary before you use them again) or you have a less than firm grip on reality.

So an outstanding professional perhaps didn't perform quite as well as he usually does? It happens to everyone and I'm pretty confident he's still far better at what he does than any of us are at what we do.
There isn't a best referee in the world.
They're all inconsistent.
The difference with Barnes is that he consistently lets more go and so avoids more decision making which gives an impression that he is better as he often appears less contentious.
Arguably it's a false impression in my opinion.

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Scott1 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:55 pm

BFG wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:09 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 am
Barnes is the best referee in the world, but I do disagree with some of his decisions yesterday evening. Even so, to call his actions "criminal", "disgusting", "biased" and "awful" is just outrageous.

It's not Barnes who needs to have a look in the mirror, it's some of you on here. Either you don't understand the meaning of the words you're using (in which case consult a dictionary before you use them again) or you have a less than firm grip on reality.

So an outstanding professional perhaps didn't perform quite as well as he usually does? It happens to everyone and I'm pretty confident he's still far better at what he does than any of us are at what we do.
There isn't a best referee in the world.
They're all inconsistent.
The difference with Barnes is that he consistently lets more go and so avoids more decision making which gives an impression that he is better as he often appears less contentious.
Arguably it's a false impression in my opinion.
Excellent post 👍

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Re: 6 NATIONS 2021

Post by Freebird » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:30 pm

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:00 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:06 am
Barnes is the best referee in the world, but I do disagree with some of his decisions yesterday evening. Even so, to call his actions "criminal", "disgusting", "biased" and "awful" is just outrageous.

It's not Barnes who needs to have a look in the mirror, it's some of you on here. Either you don't understand the meaning of the words you're using (in which case consult a dictionary before you use them again) or you have a less than firm grip on reality.

So an outstanding professional perhaps didn't perform quite as well as he usually does? It happens to everyone and I'm pretty confident he's still far better at what he does than any of us are at what we do.
Nail and head come to mind here...
Says it for me as well.

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