Use it

[northerntiger]

Bit confused by an incident in the Bristol v Newcastle game. Newcastle scrum, Newcastle going forward slowly 5m from line. Ref call use it, Newcastle ignore and it’s turned over.
Two questions
I know the 9 has 5s from ref calling use it at a ruck, I didn’t think there was such a law from scrums?
Given that, if he can call use it, should he have done so so quickly?

Anyone enlighten me?

[Scott1]

My question is why has he told them to use it that close to the line and going forward?!

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Nigel was doing something similar in the Scarlets game last night, but his words were use it your not going anywhere, ball at the 8's feet so playable, on one occasion the scrum did move so he revised his wording, he also forgot his cards but dealt with it in the manner you would expect.
I know a lot of people on here can't stand him but his game & player management are exemplary.

[Scott1]

Nigel was doing something similar in the Scarlets game last night, but his words were use it your not going anywhere, ball at the 8's feet so playable, on one occasion the scrum did move so he revised his wording, he also forgot his cards but dealt with it in the manner you would expect.
I know a lot of people on here can't stand him but his game & player management are exemplary.

How did his fitness look? His last couple of international games I’ve seen him in it looked a bit like he was blowing.

[northerntiger]

And the ref in the wasps game has just shouted use it or reset, which is fine by me. But can a ref just tell a team to use it at a scrum, then penalise them if they don’t?

[Scott1]

Found this

When the scrum is stationary and the ball has been available at the back of the scrum for three-five seconds, the referee calls “use it”. The team must then play the ball out of the scrum immediately. Sanction: Scrum.

https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=19&language=EN

[Scott1]

I know repeated offences can warrant higher sanctions but if this was the first time then it looks like the ref got it wrong badly

[northerntiger]

Thanks Scott, wasn’t aware of that law. I think you’re right though, the ref got it very badly wrong

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Nigel was doing something similar in the Scarlets game last night, but his words were use it your not going anywhere, ball at the 8's feet so playable, on one occasion the scrum did move so he revised his wording, he also forgot his cards but dealt with it in the manner you would expect.
I know a lot of people on here can't stand him but his game & player management are exemplary.

How did his fitness look? His last couple of international games I’ve seen him in it looked a bit like he was blowing.

Tbh it was hardly end to end stuff, he looked fine to me.

[Scott1]

Nigel was doing something similar in the Scarlets game last night, but his words were use it your not going anywhere, ball at the 8's feet so playable, on one occasion the scrum did move so he revised his wording, he also forgot his cards but dealt with it in the manner you would expect.
I know a lot of people on here can't stand him but his game & player management are exemplary.

How did his fitness look? His last couple of international games I’ve seen him in it looked a bit like he was blowing.

Tbh it was hardly end to end stuff, he looked fine to me.

Thanks

[sam16111986]

Thanks Scott, wasn’t aware of that law. I think you’re right though, the ref got it very badly wrong

Well by the letter of the law he got it right. At the time he called it the Falcons pack wasn't moving and the ball was available. The Falcons pack had a secondary shove and it continued to tell them to use it. He must have said it about five times. The 8 and 9 for Falcons were just to dumb to listen, if the ref keeps yelling use it you don't ignore him. Pretty basic stuff. As an aside I thought the 8 for Falcons was fairly useless at the base completely bungling what would have been a walk over try by kicking the ball out in another scrum.

Having said that I thought Sir was a bit quick to shout use it and could have waited a couple of more seconds to see if there was a secondary shove. It's been part of the laws for a while and with refs being told to speed the game up expect to see more of it.

The one in the Chiefs game where it was called use or reset was because the scrum had gone down but the ball was at the back. A lot of refs would have just called that play on though.

[JP14]

Basically, the ref called use it just before the Falcons put on the second shove. This meant it didn’t matter if Newcastle scrum was going forward or not, it was just the ref’s fault for prematurely calling it and neither the scrumhalf nor the No.8 van der Walt react quickly enough, leaving Ridley with no choice but to blow the whistle and give the scrum over to the Bears.

[Scott1]

Basically, the ref called use it just before the Falcons put on the second shove. This meant it didn’t matter if Newcastle scrum was going forward or not, it was just the ref’s fault for prematurely calling it and neither the scrumhalf nor the No.8 van der Walt react quickly enough, leaving Ridley with no choice but to blow the whistle and give the scrum over to the Bears.

I was mistaken by the OP use of the term turnover. I took that as he meant the ref have a free kick or penalty. If he awarded the scrum then he was absolutely spot on!

[northerntiger]

I was unaware of the scrum law, hence my post. He did award a scrum, by the letter of the law he was correct, and I agree that Newcastle should have reacted, given how much he shouted. I do think though, given the location of the scrum, he was far too quick in his shout

[TigerFeetSteve]

I was unaware of the scrum law, hence my post. He did award a scrum, by the letter of the law he was correct, and I agree that Newcastle should have reacted, given how much he shouted. I do think though, given the location of the scrum, he was far too quick in his shout

I think the problem is in the red zone a lot of teams once the ball is available for the 8 will then try and leave it as long as possible to draw a penalty (and work towards a card) so the ref is actively trying to reduce wasted time, he probably jumped the gun.

It may be the fullback in me, but I think if you get the ball to the back quickly and spread it wide early then you have a great chance of a score, it's delays passing it to the backs that make it harder to create, therefore I'd rather see quick ball from a scrum rather than trying for a penalty unless I know they have a massive advantage and are almost guaranteed the penalty the advantage of quick ball and that space to make yards before the flanker can make it over can be massive.