Sam Simmonds?!

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

baz1664
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:47 pm
Location: LEICESTER!!

Sam Simmonds?!

Post by baz1664 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:50 pm

Can anyone explain why this chap isn’t the first name on the England team sheet for Jones, proven leader, consistent quality performances, scores tries, proven in all aspects, yes England have an awesome back row but he most slot in somewhere, bench spot at least!!??

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4796
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:54 pm

Because he is a luxury player. That’s no disrespect to his work rate or talent but the premiership is a big step down from international rugby. As an example using the Ireland game from the Autumn cup,would you have wanted Sam in there or Billy V? It was brutal,no room for luxury players. Of course he is a better player now but he didnt stand out at all in his international appearances and he just doesn’t fit into Eddies gameplan I’m afraid.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4796
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:56 pm

Just to add,a lot of people were on Billy V but he was fantastic this autumn. I believe he was top tackler and carrier and some of his tackles were brutal. Right back to his best and a world class player in arguably the worlds best back row and with Earle providing fantastic cameos every game we are ok without Sam.

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3208
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by BFG » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:29 pm

baz1664 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:50 pm
Can anyone explain why this chap isn’t the first name on the England team sheet for Jones, proven leader, consistent quality performances, scores tries, proven in all aspects, yes England have an awesome back row but he most slot in somewhere, bench spot at least!!??
Because England are obsessed with running the ball into contact for fear of what might happen if they try to evade it.
Unfortunately there are some idiots about who view backrow players who possess line breaking ability as luxury players.
If Simmonds were from New Zealand those same idiots would probably be raving about him.

baz1664
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:47 pm
Location: LEICESTER!!

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by baz1664 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:32 pm

Not even a bench impact player? Gets the best player in euro vote and doesn’t get a sniff, just very odd!! Surely pick on form!!

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4796
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:56 pm

BFG wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:29 pm
baz1664 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:50 pm
Can anyone explain why this chap isn’t the first name on the England team sheet for Jones, proven leader, consistent quality performances, scores tries, proven in all aspects, yes England have an awesome back row but he most slot in somewhere, bench spot at least!!??
Because England are obsessed with running the ball into contact for fear of what might happen if they try to evade it.
Unfortunately there are some idiots about who view backrow players who possess line breaking ability as luxury players.
If Simmonds were from New Zealand those same idiots would probably be raving about him.
Less of the idiot lippy! He isnt as good as Curry,Underhill or Vunipola simple as! And Earles been fantastic as back up,once you become an international coach and amass a trophy cabinet as big as Eddie has in his time in charge of England get back to me,until then jog on!

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4796
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:56 pm

baz1664 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:32 pm
Not even a bench impact player? Gets the best player in euro vote and doesn’t get a sniff, just very odd!! Surely pick on form!!
Who do you drop?

westwinds31
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4619
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by westwinds31 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:47 pm

He’s quite clearly behind Curry, Underhill, Vunipola, Earl and Willis for starters. Just because you’re tearing it up at club level doesn’t mean you automatically go straight into the England squad. Eddie likes his way of playing and his type of player...Simmonds isn’t one of those. Other coaches may pick him....it happens. Remember Armand and the clamour to get him into the starting line up ? And Cipriani until recently. Some players just don’t fit the mould.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4796
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:50 pm

westwinds31 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:47 pm
He’s quite clearly behind Curry, Underhill, Vunipola, Earl and Willis for starters. Just because you’re tearing it up at club level doesn’t mean you automatically go straight into the England squad. Eddie likes his way of playing and his type of player...Simmonds isn’t one of those. Other coaches may pick him....it happens. Remember Armand and the clamour to get him into the starting line up ? And Cipriani until recently. Some players just don’t fit the mould.
+1

TigerFeetSteve
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 995
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:20 am

Back row is probably England's strongest position atm, I'd rate players in this order for England.

Curry
Underhill
Vunipola
Willis
Simmonds
Earl
Wilson

That's my opinion though 4 to 7 is quite close. Ok Wilson is coming back from injury but performance at international level is proven in his case. EJ has Earl 2spots higher but England have a fantastic backrow. Think Simmonds is unlucky to not have been picked at all yet but given our strength in the position it's not a shocker of a decision.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4317
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by sam16111986 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:26 am

I think Eddie has said it before, he like Simmons and thinks he's a great player but balancing the backrow with him in it is difficult. If he plays 8 you need a lock at 6 or some other big bloke because physically Simmons isn't the unit Vunipola or Hughes are. On the flank he isn't up there with the defensive work rate of the kamikaze kids. At Chiefs he tends to play with some pretty massive flankers.

Exeter play a different style of defence to England. They soak up opposition pressure. England go hunting big hits and turnovers. I wish Eddie would find a way to bring him in to the mix as he'd add something in attack but I don't think Eddie is motivated to do so when Ben Earl is scoring plenty of tries in all action displays.

voice of the crumbie
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1812
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:25 pm
Location: coalville

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by voice of the crumbie » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:11 am

I have felt for a while that Billy Vunipola has reached his peak and is now not as effective game after game as he used to be. So the time is ripe for a long term replacement to be developed. I'm not convinced by Nathan Hughes. Like his former team mate James Haskell he's great when he's on song but the good performances have been interspersed with mediocre and ineffective ones. Therefore not consistently good enough for me.

For the way England are playing at the moment Curry and Underhill have proved game after game to be the right first choices and therefore difficult to drop unless an experiment with a different style is tried. As others have said whether there is a role for Simmonds depends on that as Ben Earl seems to suit the style currently being utilised.

So for me it's Underhill, Curry and Earl as starters with the finishers slot being a choice between Wilson (my personal choice), Simmonds and Willis. If Alfie Barbeary were fit he might be a wild card choice off the bench at flanker.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

DeadlyDunc
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:05 pm

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by DeadlyDunc » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:24 am

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:11 am
I have felt for a while that Billy Vunipola has reached his peak and is now not as effective game after game as he used to be. So the time is ripe for a long term replacement to be developed. I'm not convinced by Nathan Hughes. Like his former team mate James Haskell he's great when he's on song but the good performances have been interspersed with mediocre and ineffective ones. Therefore not consistently good enough for me.

For the way England are playing at the moment Curry and Underhill have proved game after game to be the right first choices and therefore difficult to drop unless an experiment with a different style is tried. As others have said whether there is a role for Simmonds depends on that as Ben Earl seems to suit the style currently being utilised.

So for me it's Underhill, Curry and Earl as starters with the finishers slot being a choice between Wilson (my personal choice), Simmonds and Willis. If Alfie Barbeary were fit he might be a wild card choice off the bench at flanker.
As it stands now, I’d bet BV would start at 8 for the Lions & I can’t see Eddie dropping him, nor would I

I’d have Simmonds instead of Wilson every day of the week

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6564
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Burbage

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by JP14 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:53 am

I'm not sold on Vunipola being selected for the Lions, however if Faletau stays fit and continues his great form from the Italian game I'm no longer so worried as to who's going to play at the tail in South Africa.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6564
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Burbage

Re: Sam Simmonds?!

Post by JP14 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:55 am

If Gatland wanted to switch it up and have Stander at 6, with Curry at 7 and Simmonds at 8 for the Lions, that could work but I think you need 3 lineout jumpers against the Boks (but that's just my opinion).
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Pellsey and 2 guests