Having read some of the 2020 rugby round ups, Exeter's achievements have led to them being given the title of the team of the year. I don't think you can argue with the year they've had.
However, a lot is being made about where they have come from in the lower leagues to champions of Europe. However, 10 years in a league that is salary capped (in theory ) is a long time IMO. Bristol for instance have made progress much more quickly since being promoted from the same league.
So, is the hype over the fact Exeter were in the championship 10 years ago as ridiculous as I think it is? Or is it genuinely impressive? And what does it say about a team like Worcester that are a perennial bottom half of the league team?
Your comparison to other promoted teams playing within sight of the M5 is interesting. In that case, why haven't Worcester flourished and Bristol achieved more? You could argue that Bristol started at a much higher base than Exeter so should be expected to achieve something quicker ie winning the European Challenge Cup?
One other thought - I guess Exeter and Saracens have some similarities in that they have a very defined game plan (but not the same plan as each other) and a stronger than average team ethic. The latter might in part be due to success which in turn breeds an even stronger team bond.
Both are largely due to the person at the top either DoR and/or HC and/or captain. Parallels to Tigers 20 years' ago?!
Does anyone have any data on squad turnover? I suspect the more successful teams have more home grown talent, and fewer players adn staff passing through the revolving door.
Exeter have had more squad turnover as a result of retirement (Salvi, Parling, Waldom etc, although yes the latter two did join clubs they retired shortly after that) than anything else in recent years. The ability to retain the core of a squad over a long period of time has been a fundamental part of their consistency and success of late.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
In the case of Exeter RB has to take a huge amount of credit both for their success on the field and the development of the club culture. They have done exceptionally well and deserve the rewards and hype that goes with it.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!
Bristol have been able to spend up to the salary cap, even when in the Championship thanks to Mr Lansdown. I don't think that Worcester ever have. That helps
I don't know about Exeter's spending but they have gone down the incremental progression route on a solid foundation.
Noggs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:23 am
In the case of Exeter RB has to take a huge amount of credit both for their success on the field and the development of the club culture. They have done exceptionally well and deserve the rewards and hype that goes with it.
I agree, and I'm not trying to downplay their achievements at all. Just the hype about the "journey".
Not a jock wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:20 am
Your comparison to other promoted teams playing within sight of the M5 is interesting. In that case, why haven't Worcester flourished and Bristol achieved more? You could argue that Bristol started at a much higher base than Exeter so should be expected to achieve something quicker ie winning the European Challenge Cup?
Yep, it's just interesting that Worcester aren't criticised more IMO. And does it show that multiple teams have never really made it to being professional clubs with ambitions of winning the competitions they're entering.
Great team,very much more than the sum of its parts. If you are picking a European 23 there wouldn’t be many players out of their squad you would pick. Baxter apparently had over 100 players to pick from at Exeter university and had some training software that no one had outside of the premiership so he did have a good start and works well with his 70 odd squad players. Interesting how they can have a squad that big tbf! Not to take anything away from their premiership exploits but it’s been a poor league for a while as European performances from our clubs show. There are * next to their Prem and European cups due to Sarries behaviour and there will be an * next to this one too with no one really to challenge them. Don’t like watching them and they make a peak AB and Leinster look like Saints with their in game shenanigans (which must be coached by Saint Baxter) and the love in makes me wretch!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Scott1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:33 am
Great team,very much more than the sum of its parts. If you are picking a European 23 there wouldn’t be many players out of their squad you would pick. Baxter apparently had over 100 players to pick from at Exeter university and had some training software that no one had outside of the premiership so he did have a good start and works well with his 70 odd squad players. Interesting how they can have a squad that big tbf! Not to take anything away from their premiership exploits but it’s been a poor league for a while as European performances from our clubs show. There are * next to their Prem and European cups due to Sarries behaviour and there will be an * next to this one too with no one really to challenge them. Don’t like watching them and they make a peak AB and Leinster look like Saints with their in game shenanigans (which must be coached by Saint Baxter) and the love in makes me wretch!
Amused when Tigers supporters comment on the oppositions shenanigans / cheating. Ditto about the constant whinging about the quality of refereeing - when we lose - again and again. If Baxter had the wit to get his hands on software no one else had, good luck to him, for being one step ahead, is he supposed to try to be one step behind. Ditto access to Students. Having Loughborough University in spitting distance has hardly been a handicap to Leicester Tigers over the years. If it was a country Loughborough University would be ranked in the middle of the Olympic medal table. The athletic and research expertise there is literally as good as anywhere in the world.
Winners always write the history, shape the narrative, whilst the losers whinge about the winners. Only two things have made me wretch over the last few seasons. The love in of journalists with Saracens, when they actually knew that the club was corrupt; there is no suggestion Exeter are. Secondly, watching a Tigers team repeatedly capitulate and not care.
I look forward to the day when Exeter fans are writing about how Tigers have an unfair advantage, and cheat, and get an easy time in the media, and refs let them cheat, because it will mean we are winning again. I think we are.
Scott1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:33 am
Great team,very much more than the sum of its parts. If you are picking a European 23 there wouldn’t be many players out of their squad you would pick. Baxter apparently had over 100 players to pick from at Exeter university and had some training software that no one had outside of the premiership so he did have a good start and works well with his 70 odd squad players. Interesting how they can have a squad that big tbf! Not to take anything away from their premiership exploits but it’s been a poor league for a while as European performances from our clubs show. There are * next to their Prem and European cups due to Sarries behaviour and there will be an * next to this one too with no one really to challenge them. Don’t like watching them and they make a peak AB and Leinster look like Saints with their in game shenanigans (which must be coached by Saint Baxter) and the love in makes me wretch!
Amused when Tigers supporters comment on the oppositions shenanigans / cheating. Ditto about the constant whinging about the quality of refereeing - when we lose - again and again. If Baxter had the wit to get his hands on software no one else had, good luck to him, for being one step ahead, is he supposed to try to be one step behind. Ditto access to Students. Having Loughborough University in spitting distance has hardly been a handicap to Leicester Tigers over the years. If it was a country Loughborough University would be ranked in the middle of the Olympic medal table. The athletic and research expertise there is literally as good as anywhere in the world.
Winners always write the history, shape the narrative, whilst the losers whinge about the winners. Only two things have made me wretch over the last few seasons. The love in of journalists with Saracens, when they actually knew that the club was corrupt; there is no suggestion Exeter are. Secondly, watching a Tigers team repeatedly capitulate and not care.
I look forward to the day when Exeter fans are writing about how Tigers have an unfair advantage, and cheat, and get an easy time in the media, and refs let them cheat, because it will mean we are winning again. I think we are.
You crack on being amused
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
the OP poses 2 questions
(1) I think the journey from championship play off winner to the league and European double in 10 years is a phenomenal one. it deserves all the hype and more in my opinion. They have gradually developed a style of play which has proved very successful and could have easily had more success earlier had it not been for the salary cap cheats from barnet - although that is conjecture.
(2) the Bristol comparison is tougher - they had pedigree in the top league but are only making strides thanks to a huge amount of cash aligned with a very good coaching outfit. this has allowed faster progress, but should progress be only measured by this? is there more merit in having a great academy supply chain?
There is no right answer, but it's a good debate....
Exeter were a pretty average bosh team until players like Parling and Salvi added considerable expertise, these additions were a big part of the transition to becoming a top team in my opinion, that was Exeter's best team to watch so far in my opinion.
Exeter have kept things going well since.
What Exeter have done really well from a coaching perspective is use the modern day referee interpretations of the breakdown to evolve a game to cope with high defensive lines.
They go over and past the ruck to press defensive lines.
Fair play it combats defence's well in a bosh rugby league that had become dominated by Sarries.
Obviously foot rucking is not allowed but players used to be able to drag out players beyond the ruck to get to the ball, now this is discouraged by refs as they want scrum halves allowed to get the ball away quickly which plays into Exeter's hands further now and is why they are now an even more dominant team.
The game has changed and the ruck in particular, fair enough if it had to, but what I find really frustrating about it all is that refs are changing the ruck for quick ball and then they aren't being consistent in enforcing quick scrum half play with Exeter currently being one of the worst culprits in my opinion.
Bunchy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:22 pm
the OP poses 2 questions
(1) I think the journey from championship play off winner to the league and European double in 10 years is a phenomenal one. it deserves all the hype and more in my opinion. They have gradually developed a style of play which has proved very successful and could have easily had more success earlier had it not been for the salary cap cheats from barnet - although that is conjecture.
(2) the Bristol comparison is tougher - they had pedigree in the top league but are only making strides thanks to a huge amount of cash aligned with a very good coaching outfit. this has allowed faster progress, but should progress be only measured by this? is there more merit in having a great academy supply chain?
There is no right answer, but it's a good debate....
I don't know how many seasons Exeter have been spending up to the cap, but a team like Bristol that has a owner happy to splash the cash can only spend the same amount on players thay Exeter can (and every other team).
IMO, Bristol winning the title and being European champions 10 years after being promoted should be classed as the same achievement but I don't think it would be by the media/opposing fans.
) is a long time IMO. Bristol for instance have made progress much more quickly since being promoted from the same league. 
