3rd January 2021 v Bath

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Tiglon
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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:44 am

aslongaswebeatsaints wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:22 am
What a unique feeling after such a long time - optimism.

I still think our best and most inspirational signing has been Aled Walters. Especially having witnessed the horror show at Exeter at the beginning of the 2018 season when I recall we simply ran out of steam after about 20 mins. I thought it wouldn’t get worse.....
I think that match was more about what was in the players' heads rather than their bodies.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by FrontRowUnionMember » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:29 am

Stats released this week, shows how hard Wiese is working for us, giving away a lot of penalties, but carrying stats (number of carries, metres carried & defenders beaten, clean breaks) he tops most of our players, matched closely by Steward.
Interesting to see that our tackle counts are topped by Wells, Liebenberg and Green, Liebenberg also one of our top carriers. Workhorses.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport ... 566392.amp

Offside
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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Offside » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:40 am

No Tigers in the missed tackles stats top 10 either 😁

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by OakhamTiger32 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:20 am

FrontRowUnionMember wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:29 am
Stats released this week, shows how hard Wiese is working for us, giving away a lot of penalties, but carrying stats (number of carries, metres carried & defenders beaten, clean breaks) he tops most of our players, matched closely by Steward.
Interesting to see that our tackle counts are topped by Wells, Liebenberg and Green, Liebenberg also one of our top carriers. Workhorses.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport ... 566392.amp
I think what is most pleasing to see this season (with the exception of the Irish game) is just how hard the players are working for each other and how the belief is growing. Last season we would likely not have recovered from 14-0 down against Bath but the determination and the commitment is there for us all to see! It seems like players are really earning the shirt once again and with so much quality in the squad in the majority of positions we are really in decent shape. Definitely moving in the right direction.

I am not saying we are out of the woods yet but the belief seems to be back, the commitment is unquestionable and players really seem to respect SB. Hats off to Walters for the incredible job he is doing regarding fitness, the lads seem in fantastic shape. We have made some excellent signings in Wiese, Nadolo, Van Wyk, Murimurivalu, Moroni, Potter and Porter and with others in the squad finding some excellent form (Liebenberg and Steward in particular) the future looks much brighter than it did this time last year.
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who yearns for the good old days!

Tiglon
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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am

I agree we seem to be making progress and I'm feeling positive about the future.

However.... We did also beat Gloucester at home last season, came much closer to upsetting Exeter at home and also lost to Irish away. The last time we played Bath at home before Borthwick we lost 31-32, so that is a small if significant improvement (but they have only won one league match this season, against Worcester).

We've only played one away match in the league this season, in which we lost to arguably the weakest side in the league. That makes me worry that our away form is not any better than last season, but the Bayonne match provides some hope on that front.

Exeter beat us easily, with a team similar to the one that was soundly beaten by Wasps. The Irish score line was also fairly comfortable for them, and they have lost both their other matches this season - albeit by fine margins.

So my questions are: Are we much better, or are Bath just a lot worse? If we'd lost that match, how many of us would be claiming progress with just one win from four in the league? Personally, I'm pleased with what I saw against Bath, but it's still too early to think we've turned a corner.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by ay2oh » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:24 am

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
I agree we seem to be making progress and I'm feeling positive about the future.

However.... We did also beat Gloucester at home last season, came much closer to upsetting Exeter at home and also lost to Irish away. The last time we played Bath at home before Borthwick we lost 31-32, so that is a small if significant improvement (but they have only won one league match this season, against Worcester).

We've only played one away match in the league this season, in which we lost to arguably the weakest side in the league. That makes me worry that our away form is not any better than last season, but the Bayonne match provides some hope on that front.

Exeter beat us easily, with a team similar to the one that was soundly beaten by Wasps. The Irish score line was also fairly comfortable for them, and they have lost both their other matches this season - albeit by fine margins.

So my questions are: Are we much better, or are Bath just a lot worse? If we'd lost that match, how many of us would be claiming progress with just one win from four in the league? Personally, I'm pleased with what I saw against Bath, but it's still too early to think we've turned a corner.
We are definitely a better team than last season in my opinion. Our fitness and defence bear no resemblance to last seasons offerings. We have more good ball carriers who make more metres and seem to have a game plan that all the players are buying into. Although the attack still has a way to go there are signs that we are being more adventurous and the lines of running have improved. On top of all this our squad has more depth which means when the six nations starts we will be able to put out a better side.
I think it is realistic for us to be aiming for 6-7th place in the table injuries permitting.
A2O

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by OakhamTiger32 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:01 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
I agree we seem to be making progress and I'm feeling positive about the future.

However.... We did also beat Gloucester at home last season, came much closer to upsetting Exeter at home and also lost to Irish away. The last time we played Bath at home before Borthwick we lost 31-32, so that is a small if significant improvement (but they have only won one league match this season, against Worcester).

We've only played one away match in the league this season, in which we lost to arguably the weakest side in the league. That makes me worry that our away form is not any better than last season, but the Bayonne match provides some hope on that front.

Exeter beat us easily, with a team similar to the one that was soundly beaten by Wasps. The Irish score line was also fairly comfortable for them, and they have lost both their other matches this season - albeit by fine margins.

So my questions are: Are we much better, or are Bath just a lot worse? If we'd lost that match, how many of us would be claiming progress with just one win from four in the league? Personally, I'm pleased with what I saw against Bath, but it's still too early to think we've turned a corner.
I would suggest that we are better than last season and Bath are on a slippery slope going in the opposite direction. I think the Irish game confuses matters somewhat. Without that match we have had a great season so far with 2 from 2 in Europe against French opposition and decent form in the league of W3 L2 (albeit 2 matches have been decided by COVID protocols). It is too early to tell for sure but the green shoots are starting to look a lot healthier!
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who yearns for the good old days!

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by ourla » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:05 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
I agree we seem to be making progress and I'm feeling positive about the future.
That's a good start :smt023
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
However.... We did also beat Gloucester at home last season,
We beat Gloucester 16-13 at home in Nov 2019 and lost 46-30 away in Nov 2020. Before this seasons game most people, me included were pessimistic of winning. We won 38-15.
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
came much closer to upsetting Exeter at home,
I'll grant you that. I was a bit disappointed with that performance. That said we led 13-7 at half time and Henry screwed up a golden opportunity to make 20-21 before Simmons got a daft yellow. So I'd argue it's not quite as bad as it seems.
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
and also lost to Irish away.
Last year we got beat 36-11, this year 22-9. Again, I'll grant you a bit disappointing but still seems an improvement.
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
The last time we played Bath at home before Borthwick we lost 31-32, so that is a small if significant improvement (but they have only won one league match this season, against Worcester).
I'll grant you their results haven't been great and I'd also they weren't that great at the weekend. But they had a good side out and did make the play off's last season, so I'm good with that.
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
We've only played one away match in the league this season, in which we lost to arguably the weakest side in the league. That makes me worry that our away form is not any better than last season, but the Bayonne match provides some hope on that front.
With no crowds and the nature of the season I think there will be less significance on who is home and away anyhow but given we have had only one away fixture I don't think we can read much into away form.
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
Exeter beat us easily, with a team similar to the one that was soundly beaten by Wasps.
I think the Chiefs team was marginally weaker if anything and Wasps were fullish strength and clearly the second best in the Prem I would argue over the last 12 months.
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:05 am
The Irish score line was also fairly comfortable for them, and they have lost both their other matches this season - albeit by fine margins.

So my questions are: Are we much better, or are Bath just a lot worse? If we'd lost that match, how many of us would be claiming progress with just one win from four in the league? Personally, I'm pleased with what I saw against Bath, but it's still too early to think we've turned a corner.
You are over thinking it I reckon. Comparing results season to season, match to match, is tricky and even more so under current circumstances. But even then it seems to me things are improving. But the real story is what you can see and hear from the camp and in matches.
You're either in or you're out

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:15 pm

ourla wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:05 pm
You are over thinking it I reckon. Comparing results season to season, match to match, is tricky and even more so under current circumstances. But even then it seems to me things are improving. But the real story is what you can see and hear from the camp and in matches.
Good counter points, and I remain cautiously optimistic that we are heading in the right direction. Fine margins so far and too early to judge conclusively.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by JP14 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:40 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:15 pm
ourla wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:05 pm
You are over thinking it I reckon. Comparing results season to season, match to match, is tricky and even more so under current circumstances. But even then it seems to me things are improving. But the real story is what you can see and hear from the camp and in matches.
Good counter points, and I remain cautiously optimistic that we are heading in the right direction. Fine margins so far and too early to judge conclusively.
I think it’s good to both acknowledge progress but still remain cautiously optimistic and keep our heads on, don’t want the team or the fanbase to get ahead of themselves.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Crofty » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:55 pm

JP14 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:40 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:15 pm
ourla wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:05 pm
You are over thinking it I reckon. Comparing results season to season, match to match, is tricky and even more so under current circumstances. But even then it seems to me things are improving. But the real story is what you can see and hear from the camp and in matches.
Good counter points, and I remain cautiously optimistic that we are heading in the right direction. Fine margins so far and too early to judge conclusively.
I think it’s good to both acknowledge progress but still remain cautiously optimistic and keep our heads on, don’t want the team or the fanbase to get ahead of themselves.
:smt023 100% this!
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by mol2 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:00 am

Having watched us and now Wasps beating Bath, I was left wondering about the player so many rave about, Sam Underhill. Don’t get me wrong, he is a fantastic player, but when the opposition have a big back row , he seems less effective.

Arguably we saw this in the 6N against France and to an extent against SA. (Although the loose head was more of a problem) so do England have to look at alternatives before 2023?

Is there a collective blindness as to how good Bath are and how good the players are? Or more to the point they aren’t. Over represented in the England side. Ben Spencer aside they look ordinary. Watson is a decent wing but didn’t look comfortable at full back (being comfortable under the high ball is not a requirement for England so he might oust Daly on that performance.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by ay2oh » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:11 am

mol2 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:00 am
Having watched us and now Wasps beating Bath, I was left wondering about the player so many rave about, Sam Underhill. Don’t get me wrong, he is a fantastic player, but when the opposition have a big back row , he seems less effective.

Arguably we saw this in the 6N against France and to an extent against SA. (Although the loose head was more of a problem) so do England have to look at alternatives before 2023?

Is there a collective blindness as to how good Bath are and how good the players are? Or more to the point they aren’t. Over represented in the England side. Ben Spencer aside they look ordinary. Watson is a decent wing but didn’t look comfortable at full back (being comfortable under the high ball is not a requirement for England so he might oust Daly on that performance.
Maybe some players perform better for England than for their clubs as per Ben Youngs. Watson and Underhill have nearly always played well for England because they are part of a better team. One Bath player who I think is very over-rated is Faluetow.
A2O

Tiglon
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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:20 am

mol2 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:00 am
Having watched us and now Wasps beating Bath, I was left wondering about the player so many rave about, Sam Underhill. Don’t get me wrong, he is a fantastic player, but when the opposition have a big back row , he seems less effective.

Arguably we saw this in the 6N against France and to an extent against SA. (Although the loose head was more of a problem) so do England have to look at alternatives before 2023?

Is there a collective blindness as to how good Bath are and how good the players are? Or more to the point they aren’t. Over represented in the England side. Ben Spencer aside they look ordinary. Watson is a decent wing but didn’t look comfortable at full back (being comfortable under the high ball is not a requirement for England so he might oust Daly on that performance.
Some are overrated - Cameron Redpath being the big one for me. He's been poor in every game I've seen him play. Would he be where he is without a rugby dad?

Watson is a terrific player, doesn't seem at his best at the moment though, possibly the way the game is currently played doesn't suit his skillset.

Underhill is a tackling machine. Used the way Eddie uses him, in a plan to dominate in that area and pile the physical pressure onto the opposition he's brilliant. In the current Bath game plan? Perhaps not so effective.

They have an inexperienced coach and look like less than the sum of their parts.

The key to a successful team, in any organisation, is not to just get all the best people together, it's to curate a collection of people who compliment each other and fit the plan. Bath look more like the former.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Scott1 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:54 am

Underhill is a TMA,I dont recall him ever standing out for Bath. Does he start for England? ABSOLUTELY!!!

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