3rd January 2021 v Bath

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ABClub
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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by ABClub » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:30 am

JP14 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:34 am
Ellis Genge, Jasper Wiese, Kobus van Wyk and Freddie Steward have all been selected in Flats XV.
I thought van Wyk was excellent. His hit on Faletau that forced a knock on likely saved a try. Had Faletau gathered and got over the gain line from 5 metres out it would have only been a matter of Bath going through a couple of phases with that momentum to score. It was an excellent read at a vital moment.

Signing Nadolo, Murimurivalu and van Wyk at the same time as Steward breaking through adds so much strength to the outside backs.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by RagingBull » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:39 am

sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:05 am
OakhamTiger32 wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:47 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:23 pm
I wouldn't have Wigglesworth in the team full stop.

I honestly don’t understand this constant bashing of our scrum halves.. this isn’t aimed at you WRFC but it’s just seems to keep cropping up..

If it’s not YBY it’s Wiggo or White.. we are privileged to have some world class 9s at our club and some with huge potential. Yes YBY might be a bit slower than some of the others with certain elements of the game but he’s a world class international with huge experience and has been and still is an incredible servant to the club.

Wigglesworth hasn’t been whiter than white of late but has a huge amount of experience to bring to the table and has looked solid during his outings for us thus far. He and YBY will be fantastic for the young lads to learn from.

White has shown his potential, most recently during the European matches but he’s a young lad and has plenty of time to develop. The same goes for JvP; a fantastic prospect and a sneak preview on Sun of what he brings to the table.

I wish we could stop going round the buoy on this one and Willy waving as to which 9 is better or faster...

Leave that to SB and the coaches and let’s be grateful we are spoiled for choice
I thought it was one of Ben's best performances in some time at the weekend. I think he picked and carried more from the base in that game than he did in the whole of last season. Created the Wells try with some great on the fly thinking. Then JVP came on and looked quick and crisp.

I think Wigglesworth was good earlier in the season, particularly Vs Glaws and will be a handy player to have during the international periods whilst White and JVP develop. White looked to have improved a little this season as well and I like how combative he is, not worried at all about getting stuck in.

I agree four good scrum halfs with a nice range of experience. Wigglesworth might only be here a short term but he only needs to be. Benny could have years still left, particularly if he keeps playing like he did on Sunday.
Eh we will see but wouldn't bet on it being too short term.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:36 pm

ads wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:29 am
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:14 pm
It's an opinion based on his previous & the fact he is blocking progress by the younger 9s, White may be young but he has made plenty of appearances, Wigglesworth shouldn't start in front of him, especially if ringfencing is happening, I would rather we hadn't employed him at all.
My issue with YBY in recent times is his form in a Tigers shirt hasn't warranted his selection as a guaranteed starter, arguably the issue is not having a 9 between Youngs & White in the squad in terms of age & experience.
:smt017 think this might why we employed Wigg....


But he isn't in between in terms of age, I am going to guess it's the Scott Steele gap from our academy.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by ourla » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:48 pm

There were at least a couple of posters on the Bath unoffy saying that there were two poor teams. I watched the whole match back last night and I wouldn't agree at all. Actually I thought there were some very good players on the pitch and some very good rugby played from both sides. There were certainly errors and mishaps but given the difficulties at the moment and were the two teams are at this is perfectly forgivable in my book.

Tigers have come from a dark place and after a couple of false dawns/rebuilds I think we are all rightfully cautious to not get carried away. But it seems undeniable, except for the extreme doom and gloomers, that we can finally have some optimism. Borthwick talks with clarity and seems to know his own mind - probably the first time we've had that since Cockers. Steward is the stand out but other youngsters are looking good too. We seemed to have found a decent 8. Even Wells looks rejuvenated - when players like that look confident, happy and performing well, you know the coaching and team spirit is looking good.

This is a strange season and it's still fairly early days but at last there is something to be quietly optimistic about.
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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by JP14 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:20 pm

ABClub wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:30 am
JP14 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:34 am
Ellis Genge, Jasper Wiese, Kobus van Wyk and Freddie Steward have all been selected in Flats XV.
I thought van Wyk was excellent. His hit on Faletau that forced a knock on likely saved a try. Had Faletau gathered and got over the gain line from 5 metres out it would have only been a matter of Bath going through a couple of phases with that momentum to score. It was an excellent read at a vital moment.

Signing Nadolo, Murimurivalu and van Wyk at the same time as Steward breaking through adds so much strength to the outside backs.
Yes I agree it was a great tackle but I think Faletau wasn't helped by a poor pass.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:25 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:39 am
sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:05 am
OakhamTiger32 wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:47 pm



I honestly don’t understand this constant bashing of our scrum halves.. this isn’t aimed at you WRFC but it’s just seems to keep cropping up..

If it’s not YBY it’s Wiggo or White.. we are privileged to have some world class 9s at our club and some with huge potential. Yes YBY might be a bit slower than some of the others with certain elements of the game but he’s a world class international with huge experience and has been and still is an incredible servant to the club.

Wigglesworth hasn’t been whiter than white of late but has a huge amount of experience to bring to the table and has looked solid during his outings for us thus far. He and YBY will be fantastic for the young lads to learn from.

White has shown his potential, most recently during the European matches but he’s a young lad and has plenty of time to develop. The same goes for JvP; a fantastic prospect and a sneak preview on Sun of what he brings to the table.

I wish we could stop going round the buoy on this one and Willy waving as to which 9 is better or faster...

Leave that to SB and the coaches and let’s be grateful we are spoiled for choice
I thought it was one of Ben's best performances in some time at the weekend. I think he picked and carried more from the base in that game than he did in the whole of last season. Created the Wells try with some great on the fly thinking. Then JVP came on and looked quick and crisp.

I think Wigglesworth was good earlier in the season, particularly Vs Glaws and will be a handy player to have during the international periods whilst White and JVP develop. White looked to have improved a little this season as well and I like how combative he is, not worried at all about getting stuck in.

I agree four good scrum halfs with a nice range of experience. Wigglesworth might only be here a short term but he only needs to be. Benny could have years still left, particularly if he keeps playing like he did on Sunday.
Eh we will see but wouldn't bet on it being too short term.
No but I expect him to do increasingly more coaching and less playing the longer he stays.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by westwinds31 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:41 pm

ourla wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:48 pm
There were at least a couple of posters on the Bath unoffy saying that there were two poor teams. I watched the whole match back last night and I wouldn't agree at all. Actually I thought there were some very good players on the pitch and some very good rugby played from both sides. There were certainly errors and mishaps but given the difficulties at the moment and were the two teams are at this is perfectly forgivable in my book.

Tigers have come from a dark place and after a couple of false dawns/rebuilds I think we are all rightfully cautious to not get carried away. But it seems undeniable, except for the extreme doom and gloomers, that we can finally have some optimism. Borthwick talks with clarity and seems to know his own mind - probably the first time we've had that since Cockers. Steward is the stand out but other youngsters are looking good too. We seemed to have found a decent 8. Even Wells looks rejuvenated - when players like that look confident, happy and performing well, you know the coaching and team spirit is looking good.

This is a strange season and it's still fairly early days but at last there is something to be quietly optimistic about.
Agreed. You only have to listen to the players talking about Borthwick, how much they respect him and how it's great to train and play under him. As you say, some players have emerged from the mess of last season, we have grit and fight now and we don't give up. Plus we have depth, so when we lose Youngs, Ford and Genge we don't fear the worst. We also have some quality, Nadolo is very very good. Still a long way to go and I'm sure they'll be defeats along the way but you can see the signs are decent. Against the top sides we're fighting well but need to avoid penalties which put us under even more pressure, which ultimately leads to scores as you can't defend for that long. I'm sure that will come.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by OakhamTiger32 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:00 pm

westwinds31 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:41 pm
ourla wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:48 pm
There were at least a couple of posters on the Bath unoffy saying that there were two poor teams. I watched the whole match back last night and I wouldn't agree at all. Actually I thought there were some very good players on the pitch and some very good rugby played from both sides. There were certainly errors and mishaps but given the difficulties at the moment and were the two teams are at this is perfectly forgivable in my book.

Tigers have come from a dark place and after a couple of false dawns/rebuilds I think we are all rightfully cautious to not get carried away. But it seems undeniable, except for the extreme doom and gloomers, that we can finally have some optimism. Borthwick talks with clarity and seems to know his own mind - probably the first time we've had that since Cockers. Steward is the stand out but other youngsters are looking good too. We seemed to have found a decent 8. Even Wells looks rejuvenated - when players like that look confident, happy and performing well, you know the coaching and team spirit is looking good.

This is a strange season and it's still fairly early days but at last there is something to be quietly optimistic about.
Agreed. You only have to listen to the players talking about Borthwick, how much they respect him and how it's great to train and play under him. As you say, some players have emerged from the mess of last season, we have grit and fight now and we don't give up. Plus we have depth, so when we lose Youngs, Ford and Genge we don't fear the worst. We also have some quality, Nadolo is very very good. Still a long way to go and I'm sure they'll be defeats along the way but you can see the signs are decent. Against the top sides we're fighting well but need to avoid penalties which put us under even more pressure, which ultimately leads to scores as you can't defend for that long. I'm sure that will come.
2 poor teams... :smt005 That to me smacks of some Bath supporters trying to console themselves that their very settled and experienced (almost) first XV lost to a Tigers team missing a number of first choice match day 23 players (Lavanini, Taufua, Reffell, Moroni, Gigena to name a few) and having had very little training. I am pretty sure that the side we fielded on Sun have never played together and will have had minimal training time. A Bath fan friend of mine text me after the game saying he was impressed how Tigers played and that Bath always seem to fall apart about 50 minutes! He was surprisingly complimentary about our future prospects.

How anyone can argue Tigers were a poor team on Sun is beyond me.. first 20 minutes, yes I'd wholeheartedly agree.. next 60 or so minutes, we weren't perfect but no chance. Wiese, Steward, Ford all were fantastic, scrum looked solid, as did the lineout after a few early wobbles during that terrible 20. Wells and Green worked well together, Nadolo and Van Wyk were both impressive on the wing and the centre pairing stood up to the challenge. JvP was fantastic off the bench and we showed incredible belief to comeback from 14-0 down to win by 5.

That Bath team have been together for a considerable time and were nearly at full strength. We had barely trained and had a number of young lads from the academy playing and a few key players missing. Seems to me that Bath are drifting in the opposite direction to us and perhaps a few of their posters are trying to console themselves by bringing us down to their level. Onwards and upwards :smt023
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who yearns for the good old days!

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by ads » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:15 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:36 pm

But he isn't in between in terms of age, I am going to guess it's the Scott Steele gap from our academy.
Fair enough not age, but experience-wise he's in between them. To be honest I thought we were ok for 9's without him, as I've thought JVP was good from the first time I saw him, but wigg could be a good coach and a good, playing, influence on White and JVP when YBY is not around. Think White and JVP should always be the bench 9 at the moment though.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:23 pm

Where White really stands out for me from the others is defensively.
Simmons looks like your ideal 9 on the bench but it would appear that ship has sailed for reasons unknown.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:59 pm

I'm really looking forward to seeing how our scrum half options play out over the next couple of years.

Wigglesworth here to become a coach while adding experience when Youngs is away.

White has had a lot of game time and I like the way he plays. Intense, aggressive and vocal. I haven't seen those extra touches of class that could make him a top 9, but I'm optimistic he will at least go on to be a strong club player.

JVP has been seen less (being 3 years younger than White), but has looked really snappy and at times electric when given the opportunity. Bags of talent, but has sometimes looked less mature than White and isn't, in my opinion, ready to start in the Premiership.

Simmons' only opportunity now looks to be on the wing.

So we have a clear first choice who has to start when available in Youngs. You feel Wigglesworth might get the starting spot more often than not when Youngs is off with England. JVP is demanding to be that impact sub to gain experience, refine his skills and continue showing what he can do. My worry is where that leaves White - he's made 60+ appearances for Tigers at just 22, but he isn't going to be first choice any time soon, you just wouldn't go with him and Henry at 9/10 in the Premiership if Wigglesworth was available, and he's arguably not our most promising young 9. I suppose if Wigglesworth isn't playing after this season then his opportunities are more obvious, White just needs to make sure he takes the opportunity of learning from both Youngs and Wigglesworth and keeps developing.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by ads » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:39 pm

Totally agree with that Tiglon.

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Old Hob » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:15 pm

Perhaps White will mature into a Sam Harrison - a solid dependable club man. (I think it unlikely these days - but you never know)
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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by aslongaswebeatsaints » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:22 am

What a unique feeling after such a long time - optimism.

I still think our best and most inspirational signing has been Aled Walters. Especially having witnessed the horror show at Exeter at the beginning of the 2018 season when I recall we simply ran out of steam after about 20 mins. I thought it wouldn’t get worse.....

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Re: 3rd January 2021 v Bath

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:01 am

Walters post match chat with Bondi is an interesting watch, you don't expect his soft Welsh accent despite knowing his background, you can see why players respond to him.
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