Better without a TMO?

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SthrnTiger
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Better without a TMO?

Post by SthrnTiger » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:04 am

When introduced I thought TMOs were a good thing to try to get things ‘right’. The Brive game was the first game in a long time I’ve watched that didn’t have a TMO and I actually think it made it much better.

Unlike some on here I rarely have a complaint about the refs as although some are better than others they all at least seem to be attempting to be consistent. It’s the sporadic involvement of the TMOs that’s annoying (don’t get me started on the Toulon game).

Yes there were a few knock-ons from both sides that were missed and some forward passes but overall game flowed much better and these things tend to even out.

Would I accept Tigers being beaten in the last minute of a European Cup with a try that should have been disallowed? I think on balance yes if made game much better to watch.

Interested to know others views?

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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:15 am

SthrnTiger wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:04 am
When introduced I thought TMOs were a good thing to try to get things ‘right’. The Brive game was the first game in a long time I’ve watched that didn’t have a TMO and I actually think it made it much better.

Unlike some on here I rarely have a complaint about the refs as although some are better than others they all at least seem to be attempting to be consistent. It’s the sporadic involvement of the TMOs that’s annoying (don’t get me started on the Toulon game).

Yes there were a few knock-ons from both sides that were missed and some forward passes but overall game flowed much better and these things tend to even out.

Would I accept Tigers being beaten in the last minute of a European Cup with a try that should have been disallowed? I think on balance yes if made game much better to watch.

Interested to know others views?
My biggest concern was during the scuffle with Youngs, I thought (but couldn't be sure without replay) I saw a swinging arm.

Without TMO I think that players will reintroduce foul play that has been all but remo
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:36 am

I don't think we missed the TMO because the ref took control of the game. He was very communicative and managed to diffuse the niggle that was building up pretty well.

Some other referees we've had, the TMO has been required because they haven't as good as Sir from last night.

I would like the TMO to only interrupt for foul play or when asked by Sir as opposed to when they feel like it. I remember the Chiefs game from last season and the TMO chipping in to reverse a Tigers lineout steal to a penalty for Lavanini having touched the arm of the jumper. Wasn't foul play, ref and TJ could see it and hadn't awarded anything. Led to a lot of pressure and eventually a try against. There were other things missed by Sir in the game but no interruptions from TMO hence very annoying performance that shouldn't be allowed. If Sir had asked, was there contact in the air then it would be fair game to offer an opinion.

ay2oh
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by ay2oh » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:46 am

Originally the TMO’s were only there for foul play but now you can hear them chirping about everything. Let’s go back to them only being introduced when the ref asked for their opinions.
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:18 am

Sir last night was a breath of fresh air, he seemed to want a game of rugby to break out, one of the best bits was he called advantage over, immediately we kicked badly a lot of refs would of called it back.
There does seem to be a more positive use it at Caterpillar time (the bit of the sinners game I watched as well), they just need to enforce the 5 seconds & actually watch where the ball is.

Last nights performance by Sir put a lot of the usual Premiership refs on the must improve step.
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by Tiglon » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:06 am

We won yesterday.

We think the ref had a good game.

Any correlation?

Or, could it be that without being able to see replays ourselves, we have also missed all the things that the referee missed and cannot analyse each of his decisions in hindsight from 7 different angles, and therefore have less to complain about? Perhaps in normal games we see so many more referee errors with all the replays, and therefore we should either stop complaining about referees (because they don't have that significantly advantageous tool) or let them use the TMO even more?

KUSADASI TIGER
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by KUSADASI TIGER » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:12 am

Yes,was only saying the same last night, the game flowed,Ref did not see everything,looked a forward pass for Ben's try but overall so much more enjoyable
Don't know if anyone else picked up some of the Ref's mic comments,i heard in a sort of French accent him saying to the Brive players " sorry i don't speak French" and just before half time he was ordering his refreshments for the break " white roll,white roll"
They made me giggle
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by Big Dai » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:23 am

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:15 am
SthrnTiger wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:04 am
When introduced I thought TMOs were a good thing to try to get things ‘right’. The Brive game was the first game in a long time I’ve watched that didn’t have a TMO and I actually think it made it much better.

Unlike some on here I rarely have a complaint about the refs as although some are better than others they all at least seem to be attempting to be consistent. It’s the sporadic involvement of the TMOs that’s annoying (don’t get me started on the Toulon game).

Yes there were a few knock-ons from both sides that were missed and some forward passes but overall game flowed much better and these things tend to even out.

Would I accept Tigers being beaten in the last minute of a European Cup with a try that should have been disallowed? I think on balance yes if made game much better to watch.

Interested to know others views?
My biggest concern was during the scuffle with Youngs, I thought (but couldn't be sure without replay) I saw a swinging arm.

Without TMO I think that players will reintroduce foul play that has been all but remo
I think some of the old "self policing" wouldn't hurt. Foul play? Not exactly, but one was encouraged to operate within the laws, especially at ruck time.
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ay2oh
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by ay2oh » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:06 am
We won yesterday.

We think the ref had a good game.

Any correlation?

Or, could it be that without being able to see replays ourselves, we have also missed all the things that the referee missed and cannot analyse each of his decisions in hindsight from 7 different angles, and therefore have less to complain about? Perhaps in normal games we see so many more referee errors with all the replays, and therefore we should either stop complaining about referees (because they don't have that significantly advantageous tool) or let them use the TMO even more?
So what if one or two things are missed as it always used to be this way. Better than constantly stopping the game to go back half a dozen phases to check if a pass was an inch forward or not . Fans are unable to celebrate a try nowadays without looking at the ref to check if he has allowed it or not . Also here’s a novel idea, why not get the assistant refs do their jobs properly :smt003
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by Scott1 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:34 am

I couldn’t fault him bar one scrum penalty that should’ve gone our way. I’m sure he said “too much hit”, now I know the rules were changed to take away the hit but I’m not sure there is a law against it 🤔

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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by Tiglon » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:44 am

ay2oh wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:06 am
We won yesterday.

We think the ref had a good game.

Any correlation?

Or, could it be that without being able to see replays ourselves, we have also missed all the things that the referee missed and cannot analyse each of his decisions in hindsight from 7 different angles, and therefore have less to complain about? Perhaps in normal games we see so many more referee errors with all the replays, and therefore we should either stop complaining about referees (because they don't have that significantly advantageous tool) or let them use the TMO even more?
So what if one or two things are missed as it always used to be this way. Better than constantly stopping the game to go back half a dozen phases to check if a pass was an inch forward or not . Fans are unable to celebrate a try nowadays without looking at the ref to check if he has allowed it or not . Also here’s a novel idea, why not get the assistant refs do their jobs properly :smt003
Except it isn't that way any more and the majority of rugby fans berate a ref for every minor error. It's because of us (and tv replays) that we have TMOs. We the customers have, for years, been telling the vendor that we refuse to accept any errors - so it's too late to complain that they've put in an extra layer of quality control. We asked for it with our behaviour.

ay2oh
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by ay2oh » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:48 am

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:44 am
ay2oh wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:06 am
We won yesterday.

We think the ref had a good game.

Any correlation?

Or, could it be that without being able to see replays ourselves, we have also missed all the things that the referee missed and cannot analyse each of his decisions in hindsight from 7 different angles, and therefore have less to complain about? Perhaps in normal games we see so many more referee errors with all the replays, and therefore we should either stop complaining about referees (because they don't have that significantly advantageous tool) or let them use the TMO even more?
So what if one or two things are missed as it always used to be this way. Better than constantly stopping the game to go back half a dozen phases to check if a pass was an inch forward or not . Fans are unable to celebrate a try nowadays without looking at the ref to check if he has allowed it or not . Also here’s a novel idea, why not get the assistant refs do their jobs properly :smt003
Except it isn't that way any more and the majority of rugby fans berate a ref for every minor error. It's because of us (and tv replays) that we have TMOs. We the customers have, for years, been telling the vendor that we refuse to accept any errors - so it's too late to complain that they've put in an extra layer of quality control. We asked for it with our behaviour.
Disagree. I think that if you took a poll of rugby fans the majority would accept the odd refereeing error if favour of doing away with the constant chirping of the TMO.
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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by SthrnTiger » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:53 am

ay2oh wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:48 am
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:44 am
ay2oh wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am

So what if one or two things are missed as it always used to be this way. Better than constantly stopping the game to go back half a dozen phases to check if a pass was an inch forward or not . Fans are unable to celebrate a try nowadays without looking at the ref to check if he has allowed it or not . Also here’s a novel idea, why not get the assistant refs do their jobs properly :smt003
Except it isn't that way any more and the majority of rugby fans berate a ref for every minor error. It's because of us (and tv replays) that we have TMOs. We the customers have, for years, been telling the vendor that we refuse to accept any errors - so it's too late to complain that they've put in an extra layer of quality control. We asked for it with our behaviour.
Disagree. I think that if you took a poll of rugby fans the majority would accept the odd refereeing error if favour of doing away with the constant chirping of the TMO.
That was the question I was asking. I admit I was one of those fans who wanted more involvement from TMOs to cut the errors but in hindsight I’ll also admit I was wrong and would prefer it back to the way it was.

At the moment we’re in an unhappy medium where not all errors are cut out (and also think that’s a bad idea) but some are at seemingly random timing.

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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by Ian Cant » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:56 am

Last nights ref was excellent because there was no TMO.

Yes, there was a forward pass for one of our tries but over the season that would balance out with some against us.

Last season there were numerous forward passes resulting in tries against us that weren’t picked up but we fans did, Oz and Kay did and even Dallagio did.

Any indiscretions could be picked up like they were in the past by the “citing official” after the game. Anyway, look at Chiefs the other week, at the time some of us thought red card but TMO didn’t pick it up then it was afterwards.

Since the use of the TMO games have dragged on and not just children, but many supporters are fed up with the endless replays before a decision, not always correct, is made.

Finally, some refs like CMKs now seem to be incapable without referring to the TMO. I think this is due to the fear the TMO has brought about refs being wrong.

In other words, get rid of the TMO and go back to 10 minutes at half time if we want supporters to continue to attend games!

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Re: Better without a TMO?

Post by Tiglon » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:00 pm

Be careful what you wish for, it's never going back :smt023

Sorry, but it's ridiculous to complain that humans are capable of making mistakes, then complain when they're given extra help.

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