Rugby players to sue for brain damage!

[mol2]

Run upright.
No jumping into the catch. Up not forwards.
Return to rucking. Bind on then drive rather than hit the ruck (or maul).

[LE18]

I wasn't aware until today that the Women do not have HIA. I also fear for their health through blows to the chest area, and why this doesn't seen a concern in women's boxing? Injury in that area can cause cancer.

To the best of my knowledge this is a myth.

I'm sad that you have just summarily dismissed this, isn't this what Rugby has been doing for so long,? Regarding the blow to chest, our family have experience that a blow can cause it, albeit it wasn't caused by playing sport.

[LE18]

I wasn't aware until today that the Women do not have HIA. I also fear for their health through blows to the chest area, and why this doesn't seen a concern in women's boxing? Injury in that area can cause cancer.

To the best of my knowledge this is a myth.

I'm sad that you have just summarily dismissed this, isn't this what Rugby has been doing for so long,? Regarding the blow to chest, our family have experience that a blow can cause it, albeit it wasn't caused by playing sport.

Do we have any female views on this?

[jgriffin]

The breast cancer thing caused a lively discussion chez Griffin. Mrs G's cancer was discovered as she had a blow to the boob (bike handlebars) , which bruised, so went to the GP. The GP (female) was unconcerned about the bruise but took immediate action over a lump she detected elsewhere. We know a fair few who have had it but nobody cites a chest blow (purely anecdotal, I know). Most women wear sports protection AFAIK.

[ourla]

Listened to the rugby discussion on R5L this evening 9 to 10 - available as a podcast - with Chris Jones, Ugo Monye, Matt Dawson with interviews with Popham and Danny Care. It was quite a good programme but Dawson started to grate a bit and towards the end he made me very angry. Essentially a premise was made were they saying that with the better brain scan option now available and other better science if you were told as a 25yo that you had some damage and that with further rugby contact you were risking early on set demetia and should stop playing what would you do. And Dawson basically says he would carry on and suggests that most players would. I find this ridiculous. If it was a physical injury (spine that may cause paralysis or knee that mean you could barely walk) he wouldn't treat the question so lightly. Surely he must know how severe the symptoms from dementia can get. Have I missed something?

[ay2oh]

Listened to the rugby discussion on R5L this evening 9 to 10 - available as a podcast - with Chris Jones, Ugo Monye, Matt Dawson with interviews with Popham and Danny Care. It was quite a good programme but Dawson started to grate a bit and towards the end he made me very angry. Essentially a premise was made were they saying that with the better brain scan option now available and other better science if you were told as a 25yo that you had some damage and that with further rugby contact you were risking early on set demetia and should stop playing what would you do. And Dawson basically says he would carry on and suggests that most players would. I find this ridiculous. If it was a physical injury (spine that may cause paralysis or knee that mean you could barely walk) he wouldn't treat the question so lightly. Surely he must know how severe the symptoms from dementia can get. Have I missed something?

There is no doubt that constant head trauma can cause major problems in later life. One study I would like to see is the numbers of incidence of cases as a % of the total number of players who have taken head knocks. The case of Jeff Astle the ex West Bromwich Albion footballer came to light a few years ago saying that heading a football can cause issues but just think of the number of people that have played both professional and amateur football over the years and what percentage have had problems

[ourla]

A20, the Micro-chipped mouthguards that monitor head impacts may be a big step forward in rugby. Danny Care said that after one "non-contact" training session they told him that he'd taken four significant hits. Coupled with the new scans they may be able to get a much better picture of how bad the problem is and alert players who are most at risk.

[Cardiff Tig]

Listened to the rugby discussion on R5L this evening 9 to 10 - available as a podcast - with Chris Jones, Ugo Monye, Matt Dawson with interviews with Popham and Danny Care. It was quite a good programme but Dawson started to grate a bit and towards the end he made me very angry. Essentially a premise was made were they saying that with the better brain scan option now available and other better science if you were told as a 25yo that you had some damage and that with further rugby contact you were risking early on set demetia and should stop playing what would you do. And Dawson basically says he would carry on and suggests that most players would. I find this ridiculous. If it was a physical injury (spine that may cause paralysis or knee that mean you could barely walk) he wouldn't treat the question so lightly. Surely he must know how severe the symptoms from dementia can get. Have I missed something?

But look at George North and other players that have had numerous, serious concussions. I bet most doctors would tell them they should stop playing now rather than risk another concussion...

[ourla]

Listened to the rugby discussion on R5L this evening 9 to 10 - available as a podcast - with Chris Jones, Ugo Monye, Matt Dawson with interviews with Popham and Danny Care. It was quite a good programme but Dawson started to grate a bit and towards the end he made me very angry. Essentially a premise was made were they saying that with the better brain scan option now available and other better science if you were told as a 25yo that you had some damage and that with further rugby contact you were risking early on set demetia and should stop playing what would you do. And Dawson basically says he would carry on and suggests that most players would. I find this ridiculous. If it was a physical injury (spine that may cause paralysis or knee that mean you could barely walk) he wouldn't treat the question so lightly. Surely he must know how severe the symptoms from dementia can get. Have I missed something?

But look at George North and other players that have had numerous, serious concussions. I bet most doctors would tell them they should stop playing now rather than risk another concussion...

This report in May 2018 lists 61 players retired because of brain injuries. But bear in mind these will only based on identifiable symptoms at the time and/or of the players own volition. The concussion protocols could still be passed and the damage doesn't show up on MRI scans so they will have carried on.

Now this group of players have come forward there will be a lot of soul searching by rugby players. It's hard though, they love it so much and lots of sports carry risks. It's just another level of awareness.

[ay2oh]

A20, the Micro-chipped mouthguards that monitor head impacts may be a big step forward in rugby. Danny Care said that after one "non-contact" training session they told him that he'd taken four significant hits. Coupled with the new scans they may be able to get a much better picture of how bad the problem is and alert players who are most at risk.

[Old Hob]

One problem is that it is "risk" and "probabilities" and one thing young, competitive men are bad at is believing negative things will happen to them. "Bad things happen to other people and I read about them in my newspaper"

[Cardiff Tig]

Listened to the rugby discussion on R5L this evening 9 to 10 - available as a podcast - with Chris Jones, Ugo Monye, Matt Dawson with interviews with Popham and Danny Care. It was quite a good programme but Dawson started to grate a bit and towards the end he made me very angry. Essentially a premise was made were they saying that with the better brain scan option now available and other better science if you were told as a 25yo that you had some damage and that with further rugby contact you were risking early on set demetia and should stop playing what would you do. And Dawson basically says he would carry on and suggests that most players would. I find this ridiculous. If it was a physical injury (spine that may cause paralysis or knee that mean you could barely walk) he wouldn't treat the question so lightly. Surely he must know how severe the symptoms from dementia can get. Have I missed something?

But look at George North and other players that have had numerous, serious concussions. I bet most doctors would tell them they should stop playing now rather than risk another concussion...

This report in May 2018 lists 61 players retired because of brain injuries. But bear in mind these will only based on identifiable symptoms at the time and/or of the players own volition. The concussion protocols could still be passed and the damage doesn't show up on MRI scans so they will have carried on.

Now this group of players have come forward there will be a lot of soul searching by rugby players. It's hard though, they love it so much and lots of sports carry risks. It's just another level of awareness.

I'd argue that professional rugby players (and other athletes) aren't "normal" people though.

How many of us would have an injury/serious pain yet still turn up and go to work knowing that it's likely to make the problem worse in the long term...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby- ... ZGBTTS3EI/

The governing bodies/clubs/coaches/medics should be the ones that are taking responsibility for players welfare, and I think they still fall significantly short in this area.

[ourla]

I'd argue that professional rugby players (and other athletes) aren't "normal" people though.

I get what you are saying but maybe part of that is being told they are not normal and the normalisation of the pain and symptoms.

The governing bodies/clubs/coaches/medics should be the ones that are taking responsibility for players welfare, and I think they still fall significantly short in this area.

Yeah, that was one of the points of discussion on the podcast. It's all very well having the HIA protocols and sitting someone out for a short time but telling them they need to have 6 months off or the ultimate "you can't play again" is another matter.

Maybe the answer is to sign disclaimers and sign away any right to insurance, long term medical care. If I try to get ski insurance with an underlying medical issue I have to declare it and will not be covered for it.

[LE18]

The breast cancer thing caused a lively discussion chez Griffin. Mrs G's cancer was discovered as she had a blow to the boob (bike handlebars) , which bruised, so went to the GP. The GP (female) was unconcerned about the bruise but took immediate action over a lump she detected elsewhere. We know a fair few who have had it but nobody cites a chest blow (purely anecdotal, I know). Most women wear sports protection AFAIK.

It was bicycle handlebars that caused our distant relation to have cancer, direct hit.
In todays paper a report says now up to 100 rugby players have joined in the legal claim and that many other sports are likely to follow.
I'm not a great fan of this American "Sue" culture, look at the simple case here of claiming for whiplash and how that has elevated everyone's car insurance premiums.
I'm not sure where all this will end up, but I fear that things will change radically and in the future we will be legislated to an extent that we dare not let kids do anything, its a real worry, but i'm old and have probably seen the best of freedom in sports.

PS still no comments regarding women currently having no HIA checks in elite rugby.

[Tiglon]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/pro ... palmer-cup

Some insight in here as to what is needed for a competition to use the HIA temp replacement rule.