And Saracens when they started their climb - and when Borthwick was there.
And the majority of Premiership clubs, with little or no connection with Borthwick or Sarries. And what were Conor Murray and Johnny Sexton (in)famous for, for Ireland a season or two ago?
Sarries weren't all kick and bosh when they had the likes Neil De Kock and Charlie Hodgson.
They were a good side to watch at that time as were Leicester.
I dunno, I referred to a certain scrum half as Neil de Kick because he box kicked so much
wellstiger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:21 am
I'm sure the Garryowen was more akin to rugby league and the conditions further North (I could be wrong and I will be put right)
But I remember the great Eddie Waring extolling its use on Saturdays Grandstand.
I do not decry the kick chase but its getting overused and why we term the phrase kick tennis.
The garryowen is named after an Irish Rugby union club that used the tactic quite a lot back in the 1920's or something like that.
Its an "up and under" as per E W, I remember the Gary Owen from the 1950s or thereabouts, but I wasn't around in the 20s so cant remember its exact inauguration.
And the majority of Premiership clubs, with little or no connection with Borthwick or Sarries. And what were Conor Murray and Johnny Sexton (in)famous for, for Ireland a season or two ago?
Sarries weren't all kick and bosh when they had the likes Neil De Kock and Charlie Hodgson.
They were a good side to watch at that time as were Leicester.
I dunno, I referred to a certain scrum half as Neil de Kick because he box kicked so much
Back then there was a time and a place for the box kicking though, not like now where it seems to be a foundation of a game plan.
wellstiger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:21 am
But I remember the great Eddie Waring extolling its use on Saturdays Grandstand.
Eddie Waring - legend! Up ‘n’ unders and an early bath!!
...takes you back a bit!!
I liked to listen to the Van Hopkins commentary and Bleddyn Jones was a feast of English words and over excited mis-pronunciations.
Can't seem to get excited by Egerton, though, I suppose time will tell.
Probably worth remembering that kicking has been a staple of the Norther Hemisphere game for many decades. If we go back to the "good old days" we may just end up with a lot of 6-6 draws...
Tiglon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:04 pm
Probably worth remembering that kicking has been a staple of the Norther Hemisphere game for many decades. If we go back to the "good old days" we may just end up with a lot of 6-6 draws...
Was that kicking direct to touch from anywhere and no lifting in the line out?
Tiglon is correct, remember Les Cusworth getting the England call and basically being told not to do all the things he was good at but to kick continuously which really was not one of Les's strengths. The best running rugby is in our memory, we have to forget a lot of dross to recall the good old days.
Sarries weren't all kick and bosh when they had the likes Neil De Kock and Charlie Hodgson.
They were a good side to watch at that time as were Leicester.
I dunno, I referred to a certain scrum half as Neil de Kick because he box kicked so much
Back then there was a time and a place for the box kicking though, not like now where it seems to be a foundation of a game plan.
You're right and wrong at the same time. The time and place for Sarries box kicking was at any ruck where they were in possession their own half. This was based on statistical analysis by Sarries and was THE foundation of their game plan, combined with a fast kick chase. By box kicking all the time, the rest of the team didn't have to think too much about what they needed to do.
I remember reading how England of the early 90s were criticised for playing too much through the forwards and not enough in the backs, I love how history repeats itself.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
Cagey Tiger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:25 am
I dunno, I referred to a certain scrum half as Neil de Kick because he box kicked so much
Back then there was a time and a place for the box kicking though, not like now where it seems to be a foundation of a game plan.
You're right and wrong at the same time. The time and place for Sarries box kicking was at any ruck where they were in possession their own half. This was based on statistical analysis by Sarries and was THE foundation of their game plan, combined with a fast kick chase. By box kicking all the time, the rest of the team didn't have to think too much about what they needed to do.
I recall Sarries often put it up in the air from between 22 and halfway.
If it was kicked back to Goode he would set the play based on what he saw in front of him.
Brits often dropped deep to cover and support whenever needed.
It was basic territorial and energy saving stuff to turn pressure and play out of range of your own posts.
Exeter do very similar, the game has slowed so much that they'll even slow their own ruck ball with the caterpillar to get set to do it.
They acquired players like Hogg to increase their counter attack.
Counter attacking from your own half has definitely decreased recently. Is that because chase defences are so much better and there is less space and it's too risky (plus breakdown rules etc as GF describes), or is it because your team tactics are to kick it back, therefore your teammates haven't retreated far enough to give you support if you're tackled, therefore you have no option but to kick?
wellstiger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:21 am
But I remember the great Eddie Waring extolling its use on Saturdays Grandstand.
Eddie Waring - legend! Up ‘n’ unders and an early bath!!
Shouldn’t that be “Oop an under”?
Ah, the memories...Eddie Waring, switch to ITV for a glimpse of Mick McManus grappling with Jacky Pallo before back to the Beeb to check the pools!
