George Ford and tactics

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Old Hob
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George Ford and tactics

Post by Old Hob » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:24 pm

There is, in today's Times, a long article/interview with G Ford headlined "Ball has become a ticking bomb". Defences are better organised, breakdowns hotly contested and turnovers easier to win hence the "bomb" analogy. Unless there is a chance to make something happen quickly, the only option is to kick it away quickly before it blows up in your face. Ford is finding the situation "fascinating" as he and Owen Farrell "try to plot new ways of breaking the shackles". He puts a lot of the current situation down to the heavy influence of incomers from Rugby League who have transformed defence. He is looking for opportunities to "flick the switch" to attack.
I hope I have summarised correctly.
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Tiglon
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Tiglon » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:35 pm

Good summary.

I think it's been happening for a while, certainly the early days of Sarries dominance were based around this mentality, as were the successful Springbok team of the same era.

Old Hob
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Old Hob » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:43 pm

True. But it does go a long way to explain why there is so much kick tennis - and why it's unlikely to stop any time soon. :smt011
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sapajo
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by sapajo » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:01 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:43 pm
True. But it does go a long way to explain why there is so much kick tennis - and why it's unlikely to stop any time soon. :smt011
It does because no one wants the ball in the context of it now being considered a " Bomb"
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by BFG » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:08 pm

Those players trying to steal ball with their forearms on the ground and their stomachs resting on the man on the floor need a good shoeing.
As a defender if you haven't taken the ball at the ruck by the time opposition reinforcements arrive then either get out of the way or make sure you've rubbed on plenty of Vaseline.
That's the way it's supposed to be and to change it is to change the dynamics of the game, which is what has happened.
That said, last week I didn't see old man Flood not wanting the ball, and England also have one of the best packs in rugby so there are few excuses for England's backs.

Old Hob
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Old Hob » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:13 pm

It's curious. They are learning these defence systems from league where there are no rucks.
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Old Hob » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:13 pm

If you watch the Saints Bristol game you can see that open, attacking rugby IS possible. Stacks of ball in hand, both sides running it and no silly kicking.
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by BFG » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:43 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:13 pm
If you watch the Saints Bristol game you can see that open, attacking rugby IS possible. Stacks of ball in hand, both sides running it and no silly kicking.
Both sides taking the ball to the line.

Offside
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Offside » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:50 pm

Kicking the ball over the defence to run on and score too. A skill and coordination that is exciting. If you can break the line by a multi pronged full frontal attack that that seems to work too. So there are current options beyond the auks running at each other until the ball is kicked up for a free for all!

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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by tigerburnie » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:11 pm

Offside wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:50 pm
Kicking the ball over the defence to run on and score too. A skill and coordination that is exciting. If you can break the line by a multi pronged full frontal attack that that seems to work too. So there are current options beyond the auks running at each other until the ball is kicked up for a free for all!
That'll never catch on.............sounds like a game of rugby when the ball was thrown to a player by a bloke who wears the same shirt as the one who catches it, way too old fashioned the fans will never wear it.
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Crofty » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:46 am

Old Hob wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:13 pm
It's curious. They are learning these defence systems from league where there are no rucks.
Makes sense in a way, from a tackle in league the defending side has to retreat 10 so for them holding the line at speed is essential to reduce the forward progression off the play-the-ball. In union the adoption of this holding the line at speed has been essential for teams to be able to force the attacking side backwards from the ruck and thus into a kick.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by wellstiger » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:06 am

here's the thing.
Defences are allowed by Sirs to go offside and classed as rush defence. Go in at the side, off feet ,compete on the floor, blocking all only penalised at the discretion of Sir and what side of bed he got out of.
If it was martialed correctly we might get a game of ball in hand rugby instead of boring kick tennis.
If it carries on we could sell off Twickers and have finals at Wimbledon. :smt015
(For the Wokes - its a joke)

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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by BFG » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:44 am

Crofty wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:46 am
Old Hob wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:13 pm
It's curious. They are learning these defence systems from league where there are no rucks.
Makes sense in a way, from a tackle in league the defending side has to retreat 10 so for them holding the line at speed is essential to reduce the forward progression off the play-the-ball. In union the adoption of this holding the line at speed has been essential for teams to be able to force the attacking side backwards from the ruck and thus into a kick.
Quick ball is the key in league and union.
Defenders on their heels with less time to organise.
If breakdown recycling was dealt with properly then the offside issues would almost become irrelevant.

Tiglon
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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Tiglon » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:03 pm

Relevant statistics I noticed this afternoon...

Most turnovers in the Premiership by player:
2012-13 Dan Cole - 3
2019-20 Jack Willis - 46

Most turnovers in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Leicester Tigers - 18
2019-20 Wasps - 169 (no club achieved fewer than 100)

Most tackles in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Leicester Tigers - 2374
2019-20 Exeter Chiefs 3333

Interesting even back then the top team made the most tackles. Hard to blame players or coaches for being reluctant to take the ball into contact these days.

On the other hand...

Most clean breaks in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Leicester Tigers - 152
2019-20 Bristol Bears -273

Most carries in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Harlequins - 2692 (average about 2000)
2019-20 Exeter Chiefs - 2976 (average about 2400)

So maybe there is more running rugby these days? :smt017

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Re: George Ford and tactics

Post by Scott1 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:07 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:03 pm
Relevant statistics I noticed this afternoon...

Most turnovers in the Premiership by player:
2012-13 Dan Cole - 3
2019-20 Jack Willis - 46

Most turnovers in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Leicester Tigers - 18
2019-20 Wasps - 169 (no club achieved fewer than 100)

Most tackles in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Leicester Tigers - 2374
2019-20 Exeter Chiefs 3333

Interesting even back then the top team made the most tackles. Hard to blame players or coaches for being reluctant to take the ball into contact these days.

On the other hand...

Most clean breaks in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Leicester Tigers - 152
2019-20 Bristol Bears -273

Most carries in the Premiership by team:
2012-13 Harlequins - 2692 (average about 2000)
2019-20 Exeter Chiefs - 2976 (average about 2400)

So maybe there is more running rugby these days? :smt017
Thanks for that 👍

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