Role of the TMO

[BrightonTiger]

World Rugby TMO global trial protocol 2019.

Guiding Principles

Any relevant information must be clear and obvious and in the context of materiality.

The application of the TMO system must be credible and consistent.

I have absolutely no issue with the standard of refereeing at the weekend but what infuriated me was the inconsistency of the TMO involvement. This faceless person who seems to pick and choose when to get involved in the game or dunk his bourbon biscuit in his tea.

Some of the infringements he chirped up about in the first half were very trivial and had no material outcome on events yet the no arm shoulder charge which looked to connect with Taufua head didn't warrant a mention.

It seems they speak up at the start to justify their role and then keep quiet in case they actually alter the outcome of the game in the closing stages.

[ay2oh]

The constant chirping of the man in the van is one of my pet hates along with the caterpillar and the ridiculously long advantage rule

[DingDong]

It boils down to the same old issue of consistence, or lack of! The TMO can interject at anytime without stopping the game, as can the AR's, but the reluctancy to call in blatant offences speaks volumes of how they don't effectively work enough as a team of officials. As for Tafua, both defenders used no arms, clear and obvious on the replays so that needed more than a PK to reflect the seriousness of the offence, especially as it looked like Tafuas head briefly touched a shoulder due to impact. I've seen players carded for the exact same situation. Not reviewed, inconsistency again.

[Crofty]

...The TMO can interject at anytime without stopping the game, as can the AR's, but the reluctancy to call in blatant offences speaks volumes of how they don't effectively work enough as a team of officials...

Might be an unpopular opinion but could Rugby Union learn from the NFL in this area; in the NFL teams of officials work together through the season and are assessed both on individual and group performance, might such consistency and group accountability help?

[DingDong]

...could Rugby Union learn from the NFL in this area

I'd say 100% yes, Rugby Union is far too complex these days to give sole responsibility to one official. Either the current situation needs to step up more or delegate the decision making to be shared with another official at the set piece. Some laws are deliberately ignored (plenty of past debates on here re those!) or laws are reffed far too inconsistent.

Rugby would improve with immediate effect if World Rugby made refs apply the existing laws. Firstly penalise anyone who clears out a player who is off their feet, namely at the tackle/ruck area therefore opening the game to be even quicker. Secondly penalise any player who is off their feet who grab players who are on their feet competing for the ball or trying to get back into position. World Rugby and refs have successfully improved the initial tackle release (ball and player), so no reason why they can't apply the same principle to the already existing laws. Stop fiddling with the laws and simply apply the existing ones!

Then start on the long list which includes closing gaps and jumping across gaps at the line out, crooked throws, forward throws, loitering offside at the breakdown, offside at the set piece, front rows dropping the scrum killing the push etc etc

[mol2]

That is a good idea - I'm sick of players who are on the deck grabbing players who are on there feet.

It's a penalty if you play the ball when on the ground and the same should apply to opposition players.

There are too many players penalised for not rolling away when they are clearly being prevented from doing so to milk a penalty or even to stop them getting back to their feet to legitimately return to compete. Yes they may be on the wrong side but sometimes thats how the tackle takes you. If players didn't hold them in perhaps more would roll away and the game actually move on.

[jgriffin]

That is a good idea - I'm sick of players who are on the deck grabbing players who are on there feet.

It's a penalty if you play the ball when on the ground and the same should apply to opposition players.

There are too many players penalised for not rolling away when they are clearly being prevented from doing so to milk a penalty or even to stop them getting back to their feet to legitimately return to compete. Yes they may be on the wrong side but sometimes thats how the tackle takes you. If players didn't hold them in perhaps more would roll away and the game actually move on.

Happening all the time now. In prehistoric days you'd get a shoeing not penalised.

[Old Hob]

I'm quite attracted to the idea of multiple observer/referees as in American football. That game, however, has evolved into a one hour playing time that takes three! It is possible, that with multiple observers multiple sins will be found. Which came first? Let's go to the man in the truck...again

[Crofty]

I'm quite attracted to the idea of multiple observer/referees as in American football. That game, however, has evolved into a one hour playing time that takes three! It is possible, that with multiple observers multiple sins will be found. Which came first? Let's go to the man in the truck...again

Definitely been a long game since before the reviews. It's the stops between downs that take the time (I say this as a fan of both codes).

[LE18]

I'm quite attracted to the idea of multiple observer/referees as in American football. That game, however, has evolved into a one hour playing time that takes three! It is possible, that with multiple observers multiple sins will be found. Which came first? Let's go to the man in the truck...again

Definitely been a long game since before the reviews. It's the stops between downs that take the time (I say this as a fan of both codes).

Its a great big NO from me, its a NON game, can take up to 4 hours for a 1 hour game, it never starts its all STOP, 10 secs is about max play, I think its all about showmanship, refs are great big showmen, my Granddaughter lives in America, she loves it, i think its the goings on off the field that the Americas go for, it cannot possibly be to see the game. Team of 53 players, only 11 on the field at any time, 11 attack, or 11 defence, or 11 specials and 20 reserves, thats if I understand it. If you fail, you get 3 more chances, no thanks, Superbowl may be a good night out, if you want the show.

[Crofty]

I'm quite attracted to the idea of multiple observer/referees as in American football. That game, however, has evolved into a one hour playing time that takes three! It is possible, that with multiple observers multiple sins will be found. Which came first? Let's go to the man in the truck...again

Definitely been a long game since before the reviews. It's the stops between downs that take the time (I say this as a fan of both codes).

Its a great big NO from me, its a NON game, can take up to 4 hours for a 1 hour game, it never starts its all STOP, 10 secs is about max play, I think its all about showmanship, refs are great big showmen, my Granddaughter lives in America, she loves it, i think its the goings on off the field that the Americas go for, it cannot possibly be to see the game. Team of 53 players, only 11 on the field at any time, 11 attack, or 11 defence, or 11 specials and 20 reserves, thats if I understand it. If you fail, you get 3 more chances, no thanks, Superbowl may be a good night out, if you want the show.

As they say, to each his own.

I do remember seeing a stat that in the 60 minutes of an American Football game they have more ball in play time than the 80 of a Rugby Union game because they stop the match clock for breaks in play (and run a play clock).

[ourla]

I love NFL.

But it's a totally different game to Union. And I don't believe you can map over the officiating.

My #1 bug bear it the minute is the caterpillar.

[Old Hob]

I do realise that it is the structure of NFL that causes the long game time; my point was that perhaps more officials = more offences = more TMO even if they don't materially affect the game.

[Old Hob]

Or we could do as the man who (some years ago) was asked about a Lancs v Yorks county cricket game and who said:

"What we want is no umpires and fair cheating all round"

[Cardiff Tig]

The NFL has multiple refs becuase one ref can't see everything on the field.

Rugby already has one ref and two assistant refs - the problem is that they don't actually ref properly or the actual ref doesn't listen to their calls. There's no reason anyone should get away with being offside anywhere on the field. The only time I think another ref is missing is scrums.