London Irish Away

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Jimmy Skitz
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by Jimmy Skitz »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:42 pm I was confused by Dickson's handling of the game. Irish conceded 7 penalties in a row in a short period of time and he didn't give any warning.

He then waited until the 76th minute of the game (by which point Tigers were the ones on a run of conceding penalties) to warn Irish that the next one was going to the bin, after a fairly innocuous offside in our half.
you could hear in Monye's voice he too thought that was a joke Mullins mentioned the warning and Monye sneeringly said "with 3 minutes to go"...

People dismiss our complaints but if he warns them and sin bins them earlier maybe we do manage to get a try when they are down a man, decisions like that matter
westwinds31
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by westwinds31 »

Still can't believe how bad that performance was yesterday. This "journey" thing annoys me as well. Players do silly things when the pressure is on and they are unsure what they're supposed to be doing. Somebody makes an error then someone else tries to rectify it by flying out of the line, getting a turnover etc but more often than not, that over-enthusiasm leads to another error...and so it goes on. Offsides are frustrating but I can almost forgive someone for trying desperately to get off the line. Van Wyk though, and Bonilla....it's just inexcusable. If it was a youngster you could put it down to inexperience but please.

Set piece, Borthwick's bread and butter, didn't work. One thing, said Dallaglio that Leicester will have worked on is the lineout. Why then are we missing jumpers, over-throwing etc ? You can't fault Tom Youngs for effort and passion but this is a long-running thing, in terms of % of lineouts won. So the scrum faltered in the first half and the lineout was sketchy, but the only time we made any inroads was when we had that couple of phases where we kept the ball alive, off-loaded out of the tackle and got in behind them. I think it ended in us taking the 3 points.

I know it's early in the season, plenty of games to go and players to come back/in, but that felt like one of the worst performances in recent times.
mol2
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by mol2 »

The set piece was an issue - or rather the scrum.

Without Gigena absent injured and Genge with England we were obliged to play Bower. The problem was either you start him with the hope that Cole will cope with the consequences of Bower not having the scrummaging power or you start LadyGaga and run the risk of more problems if Bower comes on later in the game when Heyes is on the other side. Should we have started our 4th choice loose head against Irish?

Let's hope Gigena is back next week or one of our normal strengths will be a weakness again.
Tiglon
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by Tiglon »

mol2 wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:34 pm The set piece was an issue - or rather the scrum.

Without Gigena absent injured and Genge with England we were obliged to play Bower. The problem was either you start him with the hope that Cole will cope with the consequences of Bower not having the scrummaging power or you start LadyGaga and run the risk of more problems if Bower comes on later in the game when Heyes is on the other side. Should we have started our 4th choice loose head against Irish?

Let's hope Gigena is back next week or one of our normal strengths will be a weakness again.
In hindsight, perhaps he should have been on the bench and brought on when the Irish 1st choice front row (who were never going to last more than 60 minutes) came off. Could be that Leatigaga wasn't ready to do 60 minutes though.

I'm not sure it was all down to Bower anyway, I thought some of the scrum calls in the first half were questionable (for both teams) and it seemed like a bit of a lottery.
CrumblingTerrace
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by CrumblingTerrace »

Leatigaga has been our form front-rower for quite a while now. He should be starting games. If he can't last the 80 then bring Bower on towards the end, but get the form players on the pitch!
RagingBull
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by RagingBull »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:07 pm Leatigaga has been our form front-rower for quite a while now. He should be starting games. If he can't last the 80 then bring Bower on towards the end, but get the form players on the pitch!
Well depends if the guy had been recovering from COVID they might want to ease him in.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Ref warns LI just before the end of that 7 penalty sequence and the no arms tackle is yellow, we're possibly looking at a different result (certainly think we'd have got the LBP)

As it is there were positives to take if only with a few individuals performances

Steward, Taufua, Leatigaga...

With De Bruin probably?? available next week, plus Leatigaga a week longer recovered from Covid I doubt Bower will make the 23 next weekend.

Brink didn't do great but he's coming off a long injury, so needs some time to be at 100% possibly wasn't the game to start him but he'll come back.

Lineout needs work but that's most likely practice and timing needing work since the Covid outbreak.

Bonilla is rusty simple as, he will get there, he was key to the Jaguares in 2019 and he will get it.

We have more people than most other lower half of the league teams missing. That means we should relatively strengthen.

No sports is always forward progression, but we're further forward than last year despite staff and player changes, that makes me optimistic going forward.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
kk20gb30
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by kk20gb30 »

Very simply put the Lineout has to improve....
Fundamental basic of the game in general and absolutely essential to how we appear to want to play the game.
The problem is that this particular failing is not exactly new.It should matter not where or indeed who the problem may stem from it simply has be rectified.Should there be hard decisions to be made , hopefully Mr. Borthwick will not shirk or fudge the issue and do what is best and necessary for our long term success.Same goes for the back chat to the Ref and failure to find touch from ball in hand.I'd ditch no one after one game but responsibilities and realistic expectations have to be met.
Any match is hard enough to win with out giving assistance to the opposition
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
RagingBull
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by RagingBull »

Freddie Steward made Flats team of the week 2nd week running
https://twitter.com/premrugby/status/13 ... 24/photo/1
westwinds31
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by westwinds31 »

kk20gb30 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:00 am Very simply put the Lineout has to improve....
Fundamental basic of the game in general and absolutely essential to how we appear to want to play the game.
The problem is that this particular failing is not exactly new.It should matter not where or indeed who the problem may stem from it simply has be rectified.Should there be hard decisions to be made , hopefully Mr. Borthwick will not shirk or fudge the issue and do what is best and necessary for our long term success.Same goes for the back chat to the Ref and failure to find touch from ball in hand.I'd ditch no one after one game but responsibilities and realistic expectations have to be met.
Any match is hard enough to win with out giving assistance to the opposition
Borthwick will get his ladder out this week. No problem
wellstiger
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by wellstiger »

Main problem at lineout and has been for some time is our captain.
He does great things around the field and is 100% committed to the cause.

Can he be relieved of his lineout duties for a utility player and still keep him on the field of play.
Likewise if a number 10 has poor kicking form clubs pass the kicking responsibility to A.N OTHER.
Traveller
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by Traveller »

A Disclaimer. I know nothing about the intricacies of 2nd row play. But I no enough about rugby to know that a team cannot compete without 2nd rows. Last season everything was about us getting someone alongside Lavannini who could play and there was talk of Matias Alemanno. We didn't get him but we got two youngsters as projects and then Enever. During the final few games of last season he played and I thought from my no nothing perspective that he looked completely out of his depth. But nonetheless SB would know what he had recruited. As it is he doesn't seem to be anywhere. Is he injured? Or just not making the squad. If the latter is the case - what happened in terms of recruitment on that one?
SydneySevens
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by SydneySevens »

We can bemoan the referee's decisions all we like but the result at the end of the game and the way we played suggests that nothing has really changed and please let's not bemoan the missing Internationals as other teams have always managed this better than we have - season after season !
Another away loss against a very average side that made us look and play like gifted amateurs ! We have to manage ourselves and address our too many weaknesses including the non-existent defence. The side that's put out is expected to win and should have trained as such, to compete against London Irish but clearly the preparation was either poor or the players didn't understand their roles - personally I think it's both. All this after match reviewing, learning our lessons, appreciating the challenge ahead of us, blah, blah, blah is unfortunatley the SOS !!
Louis Deacon, Mike Ford, Matt Smith, The Board still employed and proper clear out.............!!!
LE18
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by LE18 »

Our problem in the line out appear to me that our 2 locks were too small. Wells appears to just be slightly too small but Green looks tiny to me, not sure why we signed him back from Falcons, I think the problem with these two will get worse, imagine Green v Du Preez, new Sale lock, at 6'-10" against him, flat throws wont work, its got to be high looping lobs but they are so slow.
westwinds31
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Re: London Irish Away

Post by westwinds31 »

LE18 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:36 pm Our problem in the line out appear to me that our 2 locks were too small. Wells appears to just be slightly too small but Green looks tiny to me, not sure why we signed him back from Falcons, I think the problem with these two will get worse, imagine Green v Du Preez, new Sale lock, at 6'-10" against him, flat throws wont work, its got to be high looping lobs but they are so slow.
Ultimately, if the mechanics of the lineout is a well-oiled machine, it shouldn't matter if you're against King Kong, he won't steal the ball off you. It's all about timing and execution. Call, trigger to throw, throw, jump and lift (simultaneously). If they all function like clockwork then job's a good 'un, but factor in the opposition shouting, trying to put you off and if they compete...but you should still be able to win your own ball. Obviously each lineout is different, depending on where you are on the field, for instance I never understand why teams go long when they're 5m from the try line. Front ball should be a gimme at the elite level and the other forwards should have the nous to make sure you're not driven into touch.

The fact that Green was the lineout "king" at Falcons and isn't now, worries me.
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