Tom, Pinchen and Borthwick LTTV special tonight 8:30 PM

[jgriffin]

Unusually for me, agreeing with most of Tiglon's post, it is worth pointing out that Tigers have long had wilful blindness in their skill set. As you are achingly aware, I thought MOC was a charlatan, a view reinforced by inside info I had at the time (but not since). The failure to utilise Billy12T (who had some storming games for us, e.g. Ospreys at WR), the misuse of Shazam's loyalty (my eldest, and some Wuss fans, wondered who the hell he was and why he hadn't supplanted Lenny) when he could've been No 1 at other clubs, the failure to appoint a decent HC AND put the money into proper recruitment etc etc, and then to reappoint MOC....it just goes on.
There's nowhere to hide now. The club has been mismanaged for a long time, for whatever reasons (Loffreda, Meyer, MOC, Cockers going stale, Mauger, MOC agaaaain, GM for too long with some awful players throughout), but like many is now being kept afloat on donated ££££ and a prayer. We just have to hope a corner has been turned, and not into another rubbish skip.

[strawclearer]

It was pretty much as expected - I know they're trying to be transparent and I completely applaud Sam W who's genuinely making a difference. However - lots has to be unsaid and just because the head says it's good doesn't mean the heart has to agree.

The reality is that we have a HC who's brought an international intensity to Oval Park. The first group to really feel the effects of it are not the players but the coaches - and two have decided it's not for them. I believe there were other factors in Taylor's decision but both he and Boris simply couldn't work in the new regime. I don't believe they left to do something else - they just left.

As for Geordan - his status as a player is truly that of a 'Legend' for me. Perhaps surprisingly, his tenure as HC then DoR has only enhanced my respect for him. He's stuck his head above the parapet for the sake of the Club despite the risks from a career perspective. The way he's been treated 'behind the scenes' - well - let's just say it leaves a lot to be desired. Peter Tom says he'll be honoured in front of the WR crowd when conditions allow. My guess is it'll be along the lines of how Cockers was applauded. The way we've treated one of the most honourable and selfless servants this Club has ever had is shameful.

Many will say that this is the way a Club has to be. Finally, Tigers has moved into the modern era - hard-headed and seeing people as 'human resources' (the most odious bit of 'management speak' I've ever heard). They may well be right and this new regime may well bring success back to Welford Road. Success on the field will sure look good but I remain to be convinced that it will feel good.

[jgriffin]

It was pretty much as expected - I know they're trying to be transparent and I completely applaud Sam W who's genuinely making a difference. However - lots has to be unsaid and just because the head says it's good doesn't mean the heart has to agree.

The reality is that we have a HC who's brought an international intensity to Oval Park. The first group to really feel the effects of it are not the players but the coaches - and two have decided it's not for them. I believe there were other factors in Taylor's decision but both he and Boris simply couldn't work in the new regime. I don't believe they left to do something else - they just left.

As for Geordan - his status as a player is truly that of a 'Legend' for me. Perhaps surprisingly, his tenure as HC then DoR has only enhanced my respect for him. He's stuck his head above the parapet for the sake of the Club despite the risks from a career perspective. The way he's been treated 'behind the scenes' - well - let's just say it leaves a lot to be desired. Peter Tom says he'll be honoured in front of the WR crowd when conditions allow. My guess is it'll be along the lines of how Cockers was applauded. The way we've treated one of the most honourable and selfless servants this Club has ever had is shameful.

Many will say that this is the way a Club has to be. Finally, Tigers has moved into the modern era - hard-headed and seeing people as 'human resources' (the most odious bit of 'management speak' I've ever heard). They may well be right and this new regime may well bring success back to Welford Road. Success on the field will sure look good but I remain to be convinced that it will feel good.

Deeply felt.

[Hot_Charlie]

.
Was this the "right" way to treat GM?

And this is where emotion needs to be removed from the discussion. Right or not, his contract would be up for discussion; after all, player contracts need to take centre stage now. The club needed to be honest with the long term future, and it sounds like they were; from the outside I’ve struggled to see evidence of any improvement under GM whether as HC or DoR. Whether he was ever the right man for the job is also hard to establish.

But the point it, he wasn’t getting a new contract next June, and if there was any friction between GM (a CV of a former assistant coach to a moderately successful team in decline) and SB (a CV of a former assistant coach to highly successful teams and now running the rugby side of the club), then sorry, it’s a no brainer.

The hard nose has to be brought out.

You've missed my point - I'm obviously (if you read my full post) not saying GM shouldn't have gone, my question was about how it was done.

No, I get your point.

I just think I’m agreeing that once we’ve considered the (let’s be fair, now expectedly badly) way it was done, we’ve probably got the long term correct outcome.

[strawclearer]

And this is where emotion needs to be removed from the discussion. Right or not, his contract would be up for discussion; after all, player contracts need to take centre stage now. The club needed to be honest with the long term future, and it sounds like they were; from the outside I’ve struggled to see evidence of any improvement under GM whether as HC or DoR. Whether he was ever the right man for the job is also hard to establish.

But the point it, he wasn’t getting a new contract next June, and if there was any friction between GM (a CV of a former assistant coach to a moderately successful team in decline) and SB (a CV of a former assistant coach to highly successful teams and now running the rugby side of the club), then sorry, it’s a no brainer.

The hard nose has to be brought out.

You've missed my point - I'm obviously (if you read my full post) not saying GM shouldn't have gone, my question was about how it was done.

No, I get your point.

I just think I’m agreeing that once we’ve considered the (let’s be fair, now expectedly badly) way it was done, we’ve probably got the long term correct outcome.

My issue is not how his departure was handled from when he asked for 'contract discussions'. My issue is how this Club legend was treated from when Simon Cohen departed. Imho it's been a shameful episode in Tigers' history.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

The more you think about it the numbers dont quite add up as a whole;

If the DOR role was going to be done away with, why appoint GM to a job that wasn't required & presumably he knew was going to be done away with (unless he wasn't privy to the full Paddy report) that's just perverse, there is a bit of a smell about the whole thing that more than tickles the back of the nose.
The break in the season, Covid, no relegation was a free hit, why not go all in then?

Let's hope the "transparency" also spreads to player matters, all they have to say is unavailable for selection this week...

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

It appears then that the ‘vision’ is now pretty much implemented on and off the pitch. Tom, Pinchen and Borthwick are presumably happy with the clarity of their roles going forward. So all the eggs are now firmly in their collective basket.

So I suppose if there is any sort of positive from the departure of Geordan it’s that Board, Sponsors, Supporters et al know exactly where the buck stops. Hopefully this will put an end to the incessant criticism of individuals on this forum, although I notice the knives are out for Mike Ford and Ben Kay. If you’ve bought into the vision and the changes then clearly the future of Ford is the responsibility of Borthwick and Kay the responsibility of Tom. So isn’t it now time to let them get on with it and hope the new world order starts to deliver results on the pitch which is what we all want to see.

Let’s all hope that the vision is not only right (no guarantee) but is also being implemented correctly. If the improvement isn’t forthcoming people now have absolute clarity on where to direct their criticism. Hopefully they won’t have to as we start to see success on the pitch and Leicester Tigers back were they belong. However, how long the honeymoon period will last is anybody’s guess but I suspect with a significant number of posters on here it will be shorter rather than longer! I wonder if the chosen 3 understand how little time they may have to bring success, whatever that looks like!

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

Sorry, one more positive at least we won’t see any poor tactical kicking in the new season as that was all Geordan’s idea.

[Tigerbeat]

Another interesting point made is that no sponsors have been lost and many new partnerships have been made with the club.

[Scott1]

Timing has worked out perfectly imo,rather Murphy gone before the season than another season with him and Births bumping heads. I see Wigglesworth moving into a coaching role at some stage too

[TigerBoy1880]

The more you think about it the numbers dont quite add up as a whole;

If the DOR role was going to be done away with, why appoint GM to a job that wasn't required & presumably he knew was going to be done away with (unless he wasn't privy to the full Paddy report) that's just perverse, there is a bit of a smell about the whole thing that more than tickles the back of the nose.
The break in the season, Covid, no relegation was a free hit, why not go all in then?

Let's hope the "transparency" also spreads to player matters, all they have to say is unavailable for selection this week...

The DOR role wasn’t going to be gotten rid of until the end of the season. There was another role in mind for Murphy. Murphy wanted to discuss a contract renewal now and the club were transparent and told him that his current contract wasn’t going to be renewed so he decided to leave now.

[DeadlyDunc]

Sorry, one more positive at least we won’t see any poor tactical kicking in the new season as that was all Geordan’s idea.

I assume that’s tongue in cheek? I think it will continue ad nauseum

I just hope it becomes less than every time we get the ball and we have some chasers who actually chase hard and fast over and over again and not once in every 5

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

The more you think about it the numbers dont quite add up as a whole;

If the DOR role was going to be done away with, why appoint GM to a job that wasn't required & presumably he knew was going to be done away with (unless he wasn't privy to the full Paddy report) that's just perverse, there is a bit of a smell about the whole thing that more than tickles the back of the nose.
The break in the season, Covid, no relegation was a free hit, why not go all in then?

Let's hope the "transparency" also spreads to player matters, all they have to say is unavailable for selection this week...

The DOR role wasn’t going to be gotten rid of until the end of the season. There was another role in mind for Murphy. Murphy wanted to discuss a contract renewal now and the club were transparent and told him that his current contract wasn’t going to be renewed so he decided to leave now.

I think we shall have to disagree we didn't have a DOR prior to July 1st, effectively we were going to have one for 12 months then get rid of the post, it doesn't add up, why not go straight to the new role/structure, I actually think the new structure makes sense, so why not go all in July 1st?
How much money has the club spent on sacking coaches the past few years?