Wigglesworth in!

[aslongaswebeatsaints]

I think it’s a really good signing. In reality a half player / half coach who has shown that age is only a mentality and will bring level headedness to the squad and a mentorship to the youngsters.

I don’t buy the holier than thou mentality from some. I dont remember any Tiger fans condemning Neil Back! Wigglesworth is a professional and a top player. He’s also human and “to err is to human. To forgive is divine”. But some people are only happy when they are moaning I suppose.

[chewbacca]

The guy is 37 years old, been playing for nigh on 20 years and his most heinous 'crimes' in all that time seem to be playing for a club that cheated (not his fault - the players don't have any say in club finances) and going out for a beer when he shouldn't have. Lock him up and throw away the key!

He slipped and fell and accidentally incorporated his own LLC to recieve the back handers did he? And that beer was during a deadly pandemic which would have put the entire England team and their families at risk if he hadn't been caught.

He was not responsible for reporting his salary to the league, if you get a company car are you responsible if your employer doesn't report that as part of your salary. He doesn't work in the finance department. He knows his salary and his benefits not the details of any cover up scheme.

In terms of the beer I'm not going to defend him, but he cocked up. Personally I'm willing (though it has taken some debate with myself to reach this point) to give him a chance just monitoring his behaviour. What I'd be a lot less happy with is if he's one of the ones who's also charged with providing a false report on what happened to the RFU, we will wait and see on that charge.

Hopefully pending charges have been taken into consideration in the contract...

I think you have a legal requirement to report all income and benefits accurately and fully to HMRC. Your responsibility to ensure your income and any benefits are accurately reported whether your employer does so or not.

[TigerFeetSteve]

He slipped and fell and accidentally incorporated his own LLC to recieve the back handers did he? And that beer was during a deadly pandemic which would have put the entire England team and their families at risk if he hadn't been caught.

He was not responsible for reporting his salary to the league, if you get a company car are you responsible if your employer doesn't report that as part of your salary. He doesn't work in the finance department. He knows his salary and his benefits not the details of any cover up scheme.

In terms of the beer I'm not going to defend him, but he cocked up. Personally I'm willing (though it has taken some debate with myself to reach this point) to give him a chance just monitoring his behaviour. What I'd be a lot less happy with is if he's one of the ones who's also charged with providing a false report on what happened to the RFU, we will wait and see on that charge.

Hopefully pending charges have been taken into consideration in the contract...

I think you have a legal requirement to report all income and benefits accurately and fully to HMRC. Your responsibility to ensure your income and any benefits are accurately reported whether your employer does so or not.

As far as I'm aware HMRC are not investigating any Saracens players for tax evasion. That would mean the players reported accurately to HMRC, the club however did not report to the league correctly. If there was tax evasion on top of salary cap offenses then HMRC would be all over it and the players would be in a lot more trouble than a relegation for the club.

[Tiglon]

what have HMRC got to do with it? Since when was Wigglesworth accused of tax evasion?

As for the covid breach being compared to Paddy Jackson's behaviour - I'm genuinely shocked that someone would consider them on a comparable level. Actually shocked.

Get a grip.

[chewbacca]

He was not responsible for reporting his salary to the league, if you get a company car are you responsible if your employer doesn't report that as part of your salary. He doesn't work in the finance department. He knows his salary and his benefits not the details of any cover up scheme.

In terms of the beer I'm not going to defend him, but he cocked up. Personally I'm willing (though it has taken some debate with myself to reach this point) to give him a chance just monitoring his behaviour. What I'd be a lot less happy with is if he's one of the ones who's also charged with providing a false report on what happened to the RFU, we will wait and see on that charge.

Hopefully pending charges have been taken into consideration in the contract...

I think you have a legal requirement to report all income and benefits accurately and fully to HMRC. Your responsibility to ensure your income and any benefits are accurately reported whether your employer does so or not.

As far as I'm aware HMRC are not investigating any Saracens players for tax evasion. That would mean the players reported accurately to HMRC, the club however did not report to the league correctly. If there was tax evasion on top of salary cap offenses then HMRC would be all over it and the players would be in a lot more trouble than a relegation for the club.

You introduced HMRC into the discussion with your analogy of not reporting a company car as a benefit if your employer did not. I never suggested that HMRC were involved with the salary debacle. Perhaps your need to make your analogies relevant to avoid confusion.

[sam16111986]

Hopefully he can bring some of this attack from his recent Ealing coaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veyPQ7iJ5es

Running lines that give the flyhalf options to pick, coming onto the ball at speed and support lines so half breaks become full breaks. Yes please.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

what have HMRC got to do with it? Since when was Wigglesworth accused of tax evasion?

As for the covid breach being compared to Paddy Jackson's behaviour - I'm genuinely shocked that someone would consider them on a comparable level. Actually shocked.

Get a grip.

It's a sign of wrong un, my point was if you ignore something small it's a slippery slope, I thought we were better than this as a club, his signing as a player is ridiculous regardless of character & if he has been bought in to coach its poor judgement at best.

Years ago Liverpool FC were strongly linked with signing Lee Bowyer, this brought about a massive backlash from fans (pre Social Media), the signing didn't happen.

I am just very disappointed & announcing his signing the day after shutting training down for Covid very poor PR, it contradicts the clubs statement.

[johnthegriff]

Wigglesworth has given sterling service to both Sale, Saracens and England over many years he has now joined us and I look for the same level of service. I do not condemn him for the financial sins of his former club, they were not the responsibility of the players, the legal people and those in charge at Sarries told the players that all was ok with cap regulations and that was accepted by the players who were not expected to be expert in those matters. I am not aware of any problem with payments or benefits that would concern HMRC. The guy has made a bad error in behaviour re the night out with Barbarians colleagues with unfortunate consequences this to me does not put him in the same bracket as Calum Clark or Paddy Jackson, Wayne Richardson Fan Club says it is the sign of a wrong un and ignoring something small is the start of a slippery slope. I confess that in the past I have driven at 37 miles per hour in a 30 limit and as child went scrumping now in my mid seventies my slippery slope continues.
The signing of an experienced but past his best scrum half begs the question why? On reflection we know that Ben Youngs is going to be away with England for an extended period, our back-up is the excellent but inexperienced Ben White and the promising Jack Van Portlivet, we need two 9's for each match and apart from those mentioned we only have one other (currently used as a utility player) who has some senior experience in the position, are we vulnerable to injury at scrum half? Yes! Will our young players benefit from having Richard Wiigglesworth around offering advice? Yes! In my opinion a good and timely signing and I welcome him to our club.

[Cardiff Tig]

Can the players involved actually get match bans for what they did? If they weren't breaking any competition rules? Or is it only match fees etc that can be fined for breach of contract?

[MurphysLaw]

I agree with JohntheGriff, and on balance welcome his signing.
One thing Tigers have lacked is players with 'nous' and game management, and his experience will be invaluable, especially when Youngs and Ford are away. His mentoring of White, JvP and Laws will help to fill the hole left by the unfortunate loss of Mele.
Borthwick knows him well, and what he can bring, and one assumes trusts his judgement.
I can not condone his recent misconduct, and no doubt he will have to atone. Tigers have had their 'sinners' too, let's not forget. This includes Manu Tuilagi, who had quite a list over the years.

[kk20gb30]

Idle curiosity - nothing more - does make me wonder when the deal was initially struck....
Personally I have no issue whatsoever on his signing in terms of ability , age , or where he came from ; in fact , if he brings with him and can impart some of the Saracen mentality with regard to competing and winning his arrival will be most welcome.
His little excursion with his Barbarian chums is a different matter - but he is here now so we best learn to live with it - and as Leicester supporters we have forgiven worse in the past from some of 'our own'.
In terms of the game that we appear to want to pursue , based on the evidence of the last two years or so , Wigglesworth is a better exponent of this style of play than any scrum Half that we have on our books and whatever we can learn from him we should not be too proud to accept.The man has ability and a head on his shoulders - and he knows how to win games of Rugby.
We have observed time and again what Wigglesworth can produce on the field of play , what now remains to be seen is how and whether we can adapt to show the same desire and effectiveness to to suffocate and blanket the opposition in the manner of the Sarries 'Wolfpack' - which does appear to be our intent.

[Tiglon]

what have HMRC got to do with it? Since when was Wigglesworth accused of tax evasion?

As for the covid breach being compared to Paddy Jackson's behaviour - I'm genuinely shocked that someone would consider them on a comparable level. Actually shocked.

Get a grip.

It's a sign of wrong un, my point was if you ignore something small it's a slippery slope, I thought we were better than this as a club, his signing as a player is ridiculous regardless of character & if he has been bought in to coach its poor judgement at best.

Years ago Liverpool FC were strongly linked with signing Lee Bowyer, this brought about a massive backlash from fans (pre Social Media), the signing didn't happen.

I am just very disappointed & announcing his signing the day after shutting training down for Covid very poor PR, it contradicts the clubs statement.

Lee Bowyer, involved in a racially motivated gang attack leaving a lone student half dead on the street. That's what you think is comparable? Really?

Making a single error of judgement in a 20 year career is a sign of a wrong un?

Come on, let's turn down the hyperbole a few notches.

[Dangerous4]

He may be 37, but he remains a quality player with massive experience. He had left the "cheats" and was a free agent. In my opinion he is an extremely good signing, and will plug the gap at number 9. Good luck to the "old" fella.

[ads]

I'm gonna reserve judgement for the time being.

If he turns put to be a great player/coach and we start to.play great attacking rugby, I'll hail him as a great, very shrewed signing by messers Borthwick/Murphy et al.

If he doesn't and we don't, I'll say he was always a wrong un, and we should never have signed a cheat!!

That's what we do isn't it??

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

what have HMRC got to do with it? Since when was Wigglesworth accused of tax evasion?

As for the covid breach being compared to Paddy Jackson's behaviour - I'm genuinely shocked that someone would consider them on a comparable level. Actually shocked.

Get a grip.

It's a sign of wrong un, my point was if you ignore something small it's a slippery slope, I thought we were better than this as a club, his signing as a player is ridiculous regardless of character & if he has been bought in to coach its poor judgement at best.

Years ago Liverpool FC were strongly linked with signing Lee Bowyer, this brought about a massive backlash from fans (pre Social Media), the signing didn't happen.

I am just very disappointed & announcing his signing the day after shutting training down for Covid very poor PR, it contradicts the clubs statement.

Lee Bowyer, involved in a racially motivated gang attack leaving a lone student half dead on the street. That's what you think is comparable? Really?

Making a single error of judgement in a 20 year career is a sign of a wrong un?

Come on, let's turn down the hyperbole a few notches.

Bowyer was innocent in a court of law, like Jackson, it's not a direct comparison its part of the lack of empathy between club & fan, being a lover of free speech, we are all entitled to our own opinion.

I dont want Tigers to win at any cost, one thing that can't be denied is the bad timing to announce this particular signing.