Autumn Nations Cup

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voice of the crumbie
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by voice of the crumbie » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:57 am

jgriffin wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:44 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:12 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:23 pm


Complacency, or the fact that Wales has a population of 3 million compared to England's 56 million? That they can compete at the same level at all is frankly an astonishing achievement.
I personally think that comparison is very flawed, especially considering that since rugby union is the national sport, a very high percentage of the Welsh youth plays rugby compared with England. Yes there is a big financial disparity which probably does heavily favour us, but that's a symptom of Wales' economy as a whole, and would change little even if the WRU was the best administration in World Rugby.
Once upon a time there was rugby in every corner of South Wales. Skills were learnt in school and honed in junior competition and the ones who rose to the top were the point on a substantial pyramid, unlike England where RU was a toffs-led game and although there was a huge reservoir of talent, if you didn't go to the right school etc etc you didn't get a smell. Your Possibles could murder the Probables, up 37-0 at half time, but be rotated out of the trial and never get picked while the Probables from the local independent schools went on to get hammered at regional level (true story BTW). That was the English disease, further complicated by the focus on grunt over talent in coaching, from Rowell and Cooke onwards, and then by professionalisation.
The Welsh were run by a few powerful men, the WRU, who favoured certain clubs (e.g not Neath for many years), selected by 'the Big Three' (I worked with Wyn Williams, one of the anonymous three, in the early 90s), and linked to the movers and shakers of S Wales (the Tafia). And then came deindustrialisation, the growth of football, and a period of decline that ended with clubs failing, the regions, and an even smaller player base. While all this went on, the WRU focused on the national team and papered over the chasms. Wales still produced near-genius players, but rugby had changed (not necessarily to the good), and the money to nurture talent didn't trickle down (unlike in Ireland). Now rugby has shrunk to a small rump of its former glory and the WRU still bask in former glories. Far more kids look to play for Swansea Jacks than Swansea RFC or Ospreys.
Wales do very well from the ruins indeed, but they are ruins. England do barely well from their spurned riches.
Good analysis JG. I studied in Wales when all those famous clubs were playing Pontypool, Pontypridd, Aberavon, Llanelli, Newport, Cardiff, Swansea, Neath etc and a trip to those grounds was not for the faint hearted - the joys of Stradey Park or the Knoll on a wet and windy Friday night :smt003
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

kk20gb30
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by kk20gb30 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:19 am

Other than a note of his future possible potential I honestly see the call up of Alfie Barbeary as somewhat premature.Thus far more hype and talk (from others) than ability shown.

westwinds31
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by westwinds31 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:44 am

kk20gb30 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:19 am
Other than a note of his future possible potential I honestly see the call up of Alfie Barbeary as somewhat premature.Thus far more hype and talk (from others) than ability shown.
Clever from Eddie Jones though I think. It serves as a reminder to the current back row players that you can't relax at any point, because there's always someone younger coming through to knock you off of your perch. He's done the same with Willis, although he's a bit more advanced than Alfie B. Of course on form, nobody is going to replace Underhill, Curry or Vunipola...at the moment. I really like the way that this England team is building. It's brutal and as others have said, we don't look like losing at the moment. The core of the side will still be around in 2023 and imagine how good Itoje etc will be at that point ! It's frightening. Plus the players that are on the fringe of the squad now will have double figures of caps...Thorley, Willis, Hill etc. It's almost like the build up to the 2003 World Cup, where when we arrived, the squad were all battle-hardened and knew exactly what it took to win.

JP14
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by JP14 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:17 am

Barbeary or Hill at 6 doing the hard-graft that Vunipola does could be a potential future way in for S.Simmonds to force himself in.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Tiglon
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Tiglon » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:06 am

Don't forget Barbeary's primary position is hooker, not flanker - even though he's featured more in the back row for Wasps. Who else is looking like they could take over from George and Cowan-Dickie?

He looks like he's going to be a top player, so why not get him involved?

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Robespierre » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:41 pm

According to Midi Olympique, this'll be the likely French side to face England on Sunday:

15. Dulin ; 14. Raka, 13. Barassi (ou Danty), 12. Moefana (ou Danty), 11. Villière ; 10. Jalibert, 9. Couilloud (cap.) ; 7. Jelonch, 8. Tolofua, 6. Woki ; 5. Pesenti, 4. Geraci ; 3. Aldegheri, 2. Bourgarit, 1. Kolingar

Remplaçants : 16. Mauvaka, 17. Neti, 18. Atonio, 19 . Rebbadj (ou Cazeaux), 20. Macalou, 21. Bézy, 22. Carbonel, 23. Lebel (ou Laporte)

I like the look of the back row. Jelonch moves to 7 from 8 against Italy and Toulouse's impressive Selevasio Tolofua (younger brother of Christopher Tolofua (ex Toulouse and Saracens hooker and now with Toulon) and Cameron Woki at 6.
There's a blend of power and pace on the wings, with the Fijian Raka and former 7s speedster Villière, although their defence my be suspect.
England should win but this French side'll cause them more than a few problems. In fact, if England persist in their quest for physical dominance (Eddie's quoted as "we're going to beat up the French") and the French play a more expansive game, then I'll be delighted if France win!
Semper in excreta

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:56 am

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/powe ... med/632745

Both Nadolo and Murimurivalu are playing for Fiji at the weekend. Good luck both!
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

JP14
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by JP14 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:16 am

Robespierre wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:41 pm
According to Midi Olympique, this'll be the likely French side to face England on Sunday:

15. Dulin ; 14. Raka, 13. Barassi (ou Danty), 12. Moefana (ou Danty), 11. Villière ; 10. Jalibert, 9. Couilloud (cap.) ; 7. Jelonch, 8. Tolofua, 6. Woki ; 5. Pesenti, 4. Geraci ; 3. Aldegheri, 2. Bourgarit, 1. Kolingar

Remplaçants : 16. Mauvaka, 17. Neti, 18. Atonio, 19 . Rebbadj (ou Cazeaux), 20. Macalou, 21. Bézy, 22. Carbonel, 23. Lebel (ou Laporte)

I like the look of the back row. Jelonch moves to 7 from 8 against Italy and Toulouse's impressive Selevasio Tolofua (younger brother of Christopher Tolofua (ex Toulouse and Saracens hooker and now with Toulon) and Cameron Woki at 6.
There's a blend of power and pace on the wings, with the Fijian Raka and former 7s speedster Villière, although their defence my be suspect.
England should win but this French side'll cause them more than a few problems. In fact, if England persist in their quest for physical dominance (Eddie's quoted as "we're going to beat up the French") and the French play a more expansive game, then I'll be delighted if France win!
I hope Tolofua does get the nod at 8 🤞, been a big fan of his ever since his powerful performance in 2018 when Toulouse beat Leinster.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Robespierre
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Robespierre » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:41 am

Yes, indeed, he’s a promising player who will surely be in the 6N squad.
Semper in excreta

kk20gb30
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by kk20gb30 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:05 pm

Would liketo see a competitive finale at least...
The tournament ,as a whole, for me at least has failed to ignite.

Scott1
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:08 pm

Fijians name their side

1. Peni Ravai
2. Samuel Matavesi
3. Mesake Doge
4. Tevita Ratuva
5. Temo Mayanavanu
6. Johnny Dyer
7. Mesulame Kunavula
8. Albert Tuisue

9. Frank Lomani
10. Ben Volavola
11. Nemani Nadolo
12. Levani Botia
13. Semi Radradra
14. Josua Tuisova
15. Kini Murimurivalu

Reserves

16. Tevita Ikanivere
17. Haereiti Hetet
18. Samuela Tawake
19. Chris Minimbi
20. Manueli Ratuniyarawa
21. Simione Kuruvoli
22. Seru Vularika
23. Waisea Nayacalevu

Scott1
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:08 pm

Scotland side to play Ireland

15. Stuart Hogg CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – 79 caps
14. Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 14 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – 22 caps
12. Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 27 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
10. Jaco van der Walt (Edinburgh) – 0 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 36 caps

1. Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
2. Fraser Brown VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 53 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 33 caps
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 16 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Exeter Chiefs) – 60 caps
6. Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – 8 caps
7. Jamie Ritchie VICE CAPTAIN (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
8. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps

Substitutes:
16. Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 40 caps
17. Oli Kebble (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
18. Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 39 caps
19. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 9 caps
20. Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 17 caps
21. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Exeter Chiefs) – 13 caps
22. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps
23. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 49 caps

Scott1
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Scott1 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:09 pm

England's retained 27

BACKS
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 46 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 87 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 71 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 3 caps)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 4 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 60 caps)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 6 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 45 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 103 caps)

Forwards
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 25 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 27 caps)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 22 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 53 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 42 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 68 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 71 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 7 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 55 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 63 caps)
Jack Willis (Wasps, 2 caps)

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by northerntiger » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:47 pm

kk20gb30 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:05 pm
Would liketo see a competitive finale at least...
The tournament ,as a whole, for me at least has failed to ignite.
Me too. It’s a one off, quite manufactured so don’t really care who wins, but would like to have seen entertaining rugby. Haven’t really. Winning is not the be all and end all in tournaments like this

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:57 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:08 pm
Fijians name their side

1. Peni Ravai
2. Samuel Matavesi
3. Mesake Doge
4. Tevita Ratuva
5. Temo Mayanavanu
6. Johnny Dyer
7. Mesulame Kunavula
8. Albert Tuisue

9. Frank Lomani
10. Ben Volavola
11. Nemani Nadolo
12. Levani Botia
13. Semi Radradra
14. Josua Tuisova
15. Kini Murimurivalu

Reserves

16. Tevita Ikanivere
17. Haereiti Hetet
18. Samuela Tawake
19. Chris Minimbi
20. Manueli Ratuniyarawa
21. Simione Kuruvoli
22. Seru Vularika
23. Waisea Nayacalevu
That is a serious backline!
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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