Autumn Nations Cup

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SthrnTiger
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by SthrnTiger » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:37 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:23 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:17 pm
ay2oh wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:24 pm

Whinging Wales again 😀
It's in the SH psyche to whinge, not just Wales. Gatland carried them onward even as rugby in Wales faltered. It's dying now, and the decades of complacent neglect by the WRU are coming home to roost. Truly heartbreaking - look at all the great clubs on the brink or gone. :smt010
Complacency, or the fact that Wales has a population of 3 million compared to England's 56 million? That they can compete at the same level at all is frankly an astonishing achievement.
But how many of the 56 million in England have welsh grandparents? :smt002 Joking aside, it obviously helps but I think the population argument only holds to a certain point. There’s so many arguments against in World Sport with the All Blacks an obvious one.

Which sport a countries top athletes go in and the quality of coaching/training plays a big role.

JP14
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by JP14 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:12 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:23 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:17 pm
ay2oh wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:24 pm

Whinging Wales again 😀
It's in the SH psyche to whinge, not just Wales. Gatland carried them onward even as rugby in Wales faltered. It's dying now, and the decades of complacent neglect by the WRU are coming home to roost. Truly heartbreaking - look at all the great clubs on the brink or gone. :smt010
Complacency, or the fact that Wales has a population of 3 million compared to England's 56 million? That they can compete at the same level at all is frankly an astonishing achievement.
I personally think that comparison is very flawed, especially considering that since rugby union is the national sport, a very high percentage of the Welsh youth plays rugby compared with England. Yes there is a big financial disparity which probably does heavily favour us, but that's a symptom of Wales' economy as a whole, and would change little even if the WRU was the best administration in World Rugby.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Scott1
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Scott1 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:17 pm

England are in a bad place? Absolutely crazy talk!

Robespierre
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Robespierre » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:56 pm

Here's the French squad of 31 players for the England game:

Fullback - Brice Dulin
Wingers - Aliverati Rake, Matthis Lebel, Donovan Taofifenua, Gabin Villière.
Centres - Pierre-Louis Barassi, Jean-Pascal Barraque, Jonathan Danty, Yoram Moefana.
Fly half - Louis Carbonel, Matthieu Jalibert.
Scrum half - Baptiste Couilloud, Sébastien Bézy.
Back row - Anthony Jelonch, Sekou Macalou, Cameron Woki, Selevasio Tolofua, Sacha Zegeur.
2nd row - Cyril Cazeaux, Guillaume Ducat, Killian Geraci, Baptiste Pesenti, Swan Rebbaj.
Hooker - Peato Mauvaka, Pierre Bougarit, Anthony Etrillard.
Prop - Dorian Aldeghiri, Uini Atonio, Ali Oz, Rodrigue Neti, Hassane Kolingar.

Many of these names may be unfamiliar to us. There's even one from ProD2, Sacha Zegeur who plays for Oyonnax and is highly rated.
They may not be expected to win, and I hope Eddie Jones doesn't underestimate them or his team could come unstuck!
Semper in excreta

SthrnTiger
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by SthrnTiger » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:59 pm

Anyone see the Ireland - Georgia game? If so, how did Mamu go?

kk20gb30
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by kk20gb30 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:11 am

Due to previously agreed player restrictions the French Side to play England will not , I believe, contain a single player that participated in their defeat of England in the last 6 Nations.This may not be the spectacle the tournament organizers originally wanted or expected.

JP14
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by JP14 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:42 am

With the call up of Barbeary and Umaga, I wonder if Jones is tempted to go experimental, this Autumn Cap is not the be-all-end-all and although England will absolutely want to win, the nature of the opposition means it is indeed tempting.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Robespierre
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Robespierre » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:50 am

23-year-old scrum half Baptiste Couilloud will be captain of the French XV on Saturday.
If England don't play with a Test match intensity, they could be embarassed by this second choice - but very capable French team.
Semper in excreta

Noggs
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Noggs » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:52 am

JP14 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:42 am
With the call up of Barbeary and Umaga, I wonder if Jones is tempted to go experimental, this Autumn Cap is not the be-all-end-all and although England will absolutely want to win, the nature of the opposition means it is indeed tempting.
Not a cat in hell's chance 'Steady Eddie' will do anything other than put out his best available team. He will want to win this, no question
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

JP14
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by JP14 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:25 pm

What’s going to matter for England in 2023? Walloping a second-string French side or enhancing depth for the long run.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Scott1
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Scott1 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:26 pm


Noggs
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Noggs » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:41 pm

JP14 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:25 pm
What’s going to matter for England in 2023? Walloping a second-string French side or enhancing depth for the long run.
I think he will go for the former but we'll see
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

Scott1
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by Scott1 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:45 pm

2023 is miles away,all about the win and momentum at this stage for me.

BFG
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by BFG » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:39 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:45 pm
2023 is miles away,all about the win and momentum at this stage for me.
Enough momentum so we can do it all again next February!

jgriffin
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup

Post by jgriffin » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:44 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:12 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:23 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:17 pm

It's in the SH psyche to whinge, not just Wales. Gatland carried them onward even as rugby in Wales faltered. It's dying now, and the decades of complacent neglect by the WRU are coming home to roost. Truly heartbreaking - look at all the great clubs on the brink or gone. :smt010
Complacency, or the fact that Wales has a population of 3 million compared to England's 56 million? That they can compete at the same level at all is frankly an astonishing achievement.
I personally think that comparison is very flawed, especially considering that since rugby union is the national sport, a very high percentage of the Welsh youth plays rugby compared with England. Yes there is a big financial disparity which probably does heavily favour us, but that's a symptom of Wales' economy as a whole, and would change little even if the WRU was the best administration in World Rugby.
Once upon a time there was rugby in every corner of South Wales. Skills were learnt in school and honed in junior competition and the ones who rose to the top were the point on a substantial pyramid, unlike England where RU was a toffs-led game and although there was a huge reservoir of talent, if you didn't go to the right school etc etc you didn't get a smell. Your Possibles could murder the Probables, up 37-0 at half time, but be rotated out of the trial and never get picked while the Probables from the local independent schools went on to get hammered at regional level (true story BTW). That was the English disease, further complicated by the focus on grunt over talent in coaching, from Rowell and Cooke onwards, and then by professionalisation.
The Welsh were run by a few powerful men, the WRU, who favoured certain clubs (e.g not Neath for many years), selected by 'the Big Three' (I worked with Wyn Williams, one of the anonymous three, in the early 90s), and linked to the movers and shakers of S Wales (the Tafia). And then came deindustrialisation, the growth of football, and a period of decline that ended with clubs failing, the regions, and an even smaller player base. While all this went on, the WRU focused on the national team and papered over the chasms. Wales still produced near-genius players, but rugby had changed (not necessarily to the good), and the money to nurture talent didn't trickle down (unlike in Ireland). Now rugby has shrunk to a small rump of its former glory and the WRU still bask in former glories. Far more kids look to play for Swansea Jacks than Swansea RFC or Ospreys.
Wales do very well from the ruins indeed, but they are ruins. England do barely well from their spurned riches.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

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