Ford out of England Squad

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JP14
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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by JP14 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:08 am

BFG wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:19 pm
Good to see England backing rugby talent in Umaga rather than going for the safe option.
The safe option can often look so because of the strength of the collective team and playing style around it in my opinion.
I'd rather see natural rugby talent backed and coached than continue to be so limited by a fear of mistakes.
+1.
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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by Dokie » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:49 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:50 am
The Umaga over Simmonds is absolutely the correct decision, Umaga/Farrell works much better than Simmonds/Farrell and if Eddie wants to return to Farrell at 10 he’s got a club combo 9/10 on the bench. Makes perfect sense to me!
I don't understand why Umaga/Farrell would work much better. Please enlighten me.

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by JP14 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:25 pm

Umaga plays at Wasps with Gopperth at inside centre, whereas Simmonds has yet to play with a playmaker outside him.
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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:09 pm

JP14 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:25 pm
Umaga plays at Wasps with Gopperth at inside centre, whereas Simmonds has yet to play with a playmaker outside him.
Simmonds does have Slade at 13 as an additional playmaker and has played 15 as the secondary playmaker. Not that I think he should play 15 internationally.

I agree that on paper the Umaga/Farrell 10/12 combo is closer to the Ford/Farrell combo. However, I'd have little faith in Umaga at 10 without Farrell at 12, particularly if the backup playmaker 12 option is Piers Francis (how has he got into another squad?).

I think Eddie will select Farrell/Lawrence/Joseph or Marchant as his midfield. Umaga to bench and get game time at the point we've taken it past the reach of Italy.

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by kk20gb30 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:17 pm

Willi Heinz now ruled out through injury.
Alex Mitchell called into the squad.

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by JP14 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:16 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:09 pm
JP14 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:25 pm
Umaga plays at Wasps with Gopperth at inside centre, whereas Simmonds has yet to play with a playmaker outside him.
Simmonds does have Slade at 13 as an additional playmaker and has played 15 as the secondary playmaker. Not that I think he should play 15 internationally.

I agree that on paper the Umaga/Farrell 10/12 combo is closer to the Ford/Farrell combo. However, I'd have little faith in Umaga at 10 without Farrell at 12, particularly if the backup playmaker 12 option is Piers Francis (how has he got into another squad?).

I think Eddie will select Farrell/Lawrence/Joseph or Marchant as his midfield. Umaga to bench and get game time at the point we've taken it past the reach of Italy.
Slade is not a playmaker in the Farrell/Toomua mould though.
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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:09 pm

Farrell isn't a playmaker at all really, he is a weird mix of Rob Andrew & Wilkinson, he isn't the best 10 or 12 in the world but somehow you want him in your International team.
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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:29 pm

JP14 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:16 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:09 pm
JP14 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:25 pm
Umaga plays at Wasps with Gopperth at inside centre, whereas Simmonds has yet to play with a playmaker outside him.
Simmonds does have Slade at 13 as an additional playmaker and has played 15 as the secondary playmaker. Not that I think he should play 15 internationally.

I agree that on paper the Umaga/Farrell 10/12 combo is closer to the Ford/Farrell combo. However, I'd have little faith in Umaga at 10 without Farrell at 12, particularly if the backup playmaker 12 option is Piers Francis (how has he got into another squad?).

I think Eddie will select Farrell/Lawrence/Joseph or Marchant as his midfield. Umaga to bench and get game time at the point we've taken it past the reach of Italy.
Slade is not a playmaker in the Farrell/Toomua mould though.
Slade played 10 for the England under 20s. Played there on occasion for Chiefs initially before settling on centre. He is the secondary playmaker in the Chiefs backline with the 12 being the direct runner. I'd agree he isn't like Farrell who is a flyhalf albeit a physical one that isn't the most creative. Slade is a centre these days, he's the secondary playmaker when Eddie opts for the Farrell/Manu/Slade backline.

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by Scott1 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:56 pm

If you can’t work out why Umaga/Farrell would work better than Simmonds/Farrell then there’s no hope for you 😂 joking of course but come on!

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 pm

If Ford recovers quickly, but others come in and do a job for England. Tigers have good depth at 10 possibly all season, would be interesting to see given centre is a place we lack in depth if we're thinking about moving a 10 out to 12 like England do?

If so which of our 3 leading 10s do we think most likely to be at 12?
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by sam16111986 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:26 am

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 pm
If Ford recovers quickly, but others come in and do a job for England. Tigers have good depth at 10 possibly all season, would be interesting to see given centre is a place we lack in depth if we're thinking about moving a 10 out to 12 like England do?

If so which of our 3 leading 10s do we think most likely to be at 12?
More likely to move one of them to 15 and then move Steward into 13 if we're short. Steward at the size he is and with some experience of playing 13 should do fine. I'm not sure Henry or Bonilla have the defensive strength to play 12. Bonilla from his highlights looks quick and we know that with Henry his footwork can get him out of trouble so 15 could work.

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by kk20gb30 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:27 am

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 pm
If Ford recovers quickly, but others come in and do a job for England. Tigers have good depth at 10 possibly all season, would be interesting to see given centre is a place we lack in depth if we're thinking about moving a 10 out to 12 like England do?

If so which of our 3 leading 10s do we think most likely to be at 12?
Rather than this , I'd prefer to engage a specialist.Believe we have spent too much time forcing wrong sized pegs into wrong sized holes - with non too successful results.All well and and good in an emergency but our 'situation' regarding centre pairings and personnel needs properly addressing (in my opinion).

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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by JP14 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:41 am

Well we're going to find out at lunchtime today hopefully!
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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by Noggs » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:20 am

Squad for Saturday:

ENGLAND MEN XV
15. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 43 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 50 caps)
12. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 56 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 83 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 99 caps)
1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 59 caps)
2. Jamie George (Saracens, 49 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 35 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 38 caps)
5. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
6. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 23 caps)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Tom Dunn, (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps)
18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 15 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 3 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 2 caps)
22. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
23. Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)

Good to see Ben getting his 100th cap :smt023
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Re: Ford out of England Squad

Post by Tiglon » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:48 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:26 am
TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 pm
If Ford recovers quickly, but others come in and do a job for England. Tigers have good depth at 10 possibly all season, would be interesting to see given centre is a place we lack in depth if we're thinking about moving a 10 out to 12 like England do?

If so which of our 3 leading 10s do we think most likely to be at 12?
More likely to move one of them to 15 and then move Steward into 13 if we're short. Steward at the size he is and with some experience of playing 13 should do fine. I'm not sure Henry or Bonilla have the defensive strength to play 12. Bonilla from his highlights looks quick and we know that with Henry his footwork can get him out of trouble so 15 could work.
Why is there this constant desperation to look for ways to play players out of position?

Why would anyone want to move Steward (a young player just finding his feet in the first team at 15) to an unfamiliar position to make room to play a fly half out of position at 15?

Before you know it we'll be moving Dan Cole to scrum half because Wells had to move to prop to make way for Liebenberg to play in the second row to make room for Nadolo to move to number 8 because he'd be nearly as good (after a year of practicing) as a number 8 as he is on the wing. :smt013

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