Coaching Staff vs International Players

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JP14
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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by JP14 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:57 pm

To be honest, I thought we have more or less managed to ball-carry on the front foot in most of the games, even in games we have lost. The forwards being on the backfoot was only a relevant factor in the game vs Bristol, even against Wasps I thought we carried well it was just defence!
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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by BFG » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:48 pm

JP14 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:57 pm
To be honest, I thought we have more or less managed to ball-carry on the front foot in most of the games, even in games we have lost. The forwards being on the backfoot was only a relevant factor in the game vs Bristol, even against Wasps I thought we carried well it was just defence!
I do agree all things considered it hasn't been too bad on occasions.

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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by nasher » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:06 pm

One observation. Regardless of the coaches or DOR for years we aimlessly kick away possession, usually our international halfbacks. That I believe is not to do with coaching but the players. Unlike Exeter our players do not all sing from the same hymn sheet and that is the players decision but allowed and maybe encouraged by the coaches, simple adage “ kick away your possession, irritate the forwards who won it, and then lose.”

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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Noggs » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:33 am

Kicking, whilst not always good to watch, can be a very effective way to manage a game, particularly against a rush defence. The problem has often been poor kicking from two of the best exponents of the skill. Kicking to relieve pressure and gain field position such that mistakes are less costly is good and should form a part of the game.
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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by strawclearer » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:42 am

Noggs wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:33 am
Kicking, whilst not always good to watch, can be a very effective way to manage a game, particularly against a rush defence. The problem has often been poor kicking from two of the best exponents of the skill. Kicking to relieve pressure and gain field position such that mistakes are less costly is good and should form a part of the game.
I discussed this earlier in the season - the one that's just finished - with 'someone in the know' at Tigers. They'd spoken with Eddie J, Steve B and others who'd done all the statistical work to show that a kicking strategy worked. It produced better results - indeed, it showed that the side which kicked the most was the All Blacks. Frankly, it doesn't matter if the statistical analysis is right. It only matters that 'they' believe it!
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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by jgriffin » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:30 am

strawclearer wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:42 am
Noggs wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:33 am
Kicking, whilst not always good to watch, can be a very effective way to manage a game, particularly against a rush defence. The problem has often been poor kicking from two of the best exponents of the skill. Kicking to relieve pressure and gain field position such that mistakes are less costly is good and should form a part of the game.
I discussed this earlier in the season - the one that's just finished - with 'someone in the know' at Tigers. They'd spoken with Eddie J, Steve B and others who'd done all the statistical work to show that a kicking strategy worked. It produced better results - indeed, it showed that the side which kicked the most was the All Blacks. Frankly, it doesn't matter if the statistical analysis is right. It only matters that 'they' believe it!
Cockers quoted that one back in 2013 or thereabouts. I'm still of the opinion that having the pill is far better than not, and there is a place for the Fatboys to stuff it up their jumpers and meander downfield instead.
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chewbacca
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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by chewbacca » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:23 am

There is only a statistical advantage if it is executed accurately and your defence is solid otherwise you invite and enable to opposition to attack you.
I'm not cynical just experienced

nasher
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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by nasher » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:50 am

Agreed.

GETHIN EXILE
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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by GETHIN EXILE » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:28 pm

The problem with "stuff it up the jumper and meander downfield" is that whereas we used to be the masters of it, the powers that be decided that you should get an advantage for stopping a maul rather than for gaining ground, I remember a game several years ago where we claimed a lineout ball on our 10 metre line and drove the maul all the way to the opposition 22 before it was stopped, referee then blew up and awarded the scrum to the opposition as the ball did not come out immediately. I would love to see a return to the put in going to the side going forward but doubt it will ever happen.

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Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Noggs » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:08 pm

GETHIN EXILE wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:28 pm
. I would love to see a return to the put in going to the side going forward but doubt it will ever happen.
Agreed. When the maul eventually goes down and the ball doesn't come out quickly the ball is turned over unless it is obvious the the defending team collapsed the maul. Clever defender create the collapse without it always being obvious.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

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