Coaching Staff vs International Players

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

milesanderson
New Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:17 am

Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by milesanderson » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:01 pm

I've been a Leicester fan since '73, have coached youth rugby at Richmond , London Scottish and London Welsh, so I speak with some knowledge having played all my rugby in Southern Africa.
The opinion among many fans is that the Tigers don't have enough quality International players and that their present form is nothing to do with the coaching; I disagree . Rob Baxter's Chiefs are a prime example, no superstars ,but they play as a combined unit , their defense is awesome and most of all they all seem to enjoy the game and so their imaginations flourish and they play exciting and really colourful rugby. Put that up against Leicester who are packed with Internationals but play a tentative , careful and unenjoyable game. And the real clue is enjoyment; look at the great Carlos Spencer who had a smile on his face all the time , mimicked nowadays by players like Chesslin Colbe, and that's down to the Coaching. It seems that dour Murphy and the rest of the staff look defeated before they start and if Leicester want to regain the good old days then that lot need to take a good look at themselves and either pull their socks up or get out and let another lot have a go.

ads
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by ads » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:05 am

The opinion among many fans is that the Tigers don't have enough quality International players and that their present form is nothing to do with the coaching
Is it? I reckon the general consensus is, its a combination of poor coaching (a view held by many fans on here) poor management from the BoD, Internationals playing too many internationals and not enough for the club, and too many injuries at key times. Along with too many old tigers trying to force the 'tigers way', not enough old tigers to enforce 'the tigers way' , too many journeymen, but not enough former internationals....

Noggs
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1735
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:41 am
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Noggs » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:23 pm

I don't recall Martin Johnson doing a lot of smiling on the pitch.

We have a new head coach and a lot of new players and have been finishing the 'dead' season under conditions never seen before. It is far too soon to judge. :smt009
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

MurphysLaw
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1761
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 2:14 pm
Location: Oundle

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by MurphysLaw » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:48 pm

Exeter have a settled squad playing with plenty of internationals, and they have been playing to a system that has taken years to perfect. They tweak it and add one or two quality players (most recently Hogg, Gray, a couple of South Africans), but their systems stay the same and everyone knows what their role is. This gives their squad a heap of confidence, and when a squad is winning almost all of it's matches it's easy to have a smile on your face.
Tigers are no-where near that position - they have new coaches and a load of new players and they are trying to re-build. It will take time for the players to gain confidence in what they are trying to achieve. Chopping and changing coaches at this stage, if that is what the OP is suggesting, will not help.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3621
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Scott1 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:59 pm

I agree with the OP,I like to imagine where we would be with this set of players under other DOR/HC,11th? Absolutely not! Hence it’s a coaching staff problem

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7215
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by jgriffin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:03 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:59 pm
I agree with the OP,I like to imagine where we would be with this set of players under other DOR/HC,11th? Absolutely not! Hence it’s a coaching staff problem
Door, open. Same old, same old. New tune needed.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

Traveller
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 554
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:46 pm

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Traveller » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:09 pm

milesanderson wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:01 pm
I've been a Leicester fan since '73, have coached youth rugby at Richmond , London Scottish and London Welsh, so I speak with some knowledge having played all my rugby in Southern Africa.
The opinion among many fans is that the Tigers don't have enough quality International players and that their present form is nothing to do with the coaching; I disagree . Rob Baxter's Chiefs are a prime example, no superstars ,but they play as a combined unit , their defense is awesome and most of all they all seem to enjoy the game and so their imaginations flourish and they play exciting and really colourful rugby. Put that up against Leicester who are packed with Internationals but play a tentative , careful and unenjoyable game. And the real clue is enjoyment; look at the great Carlos Spencer who had a smile on his face all the time , mimicked nowadays by players like Chesslin Colbe, and that's down to the Coaching. It seems that dour Murphy and the rest of the staff look defeated before they start and if Leicester want to regain the good old days then that lot need to take a good look at themselves and either pull their socks up or get out and let another lot have a go.
Is that really the case? Most feedback on this forum for the past three / four years has been that the coaching has varied from pitifully poor to on the really bad days - totally and utterly non-existent. How on earth did Murphy who has no coaching background at all, zero, get the job of Head Coach etc etc.

PS. Do we all now have to explain what our coaching pedigree is before we offer an opinion that is worthwhile. I'm happy to do so if its a condition of the forum but ...............

Cagey Tiger
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1896
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: South Lincolnshire

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Cagey Tiger » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:35 pm

All I can say is that the OP has not been reading the same comments on this forum that I have.

From July 1st we have had a huge turnover in players with new arrivals coming in dribs and drabs, another new head coach (is that the 5th in 4 years?) plus other senior coaches. We've played 9 largely meaningless matches which have been used to get players familiar with each other and the coaches and vice versa, along with giving a whole raft of young players their first taste of Premiership rugby and 1 match of any significance. And the OP wants another clear out of the coaches? It's the sort of post I would expect from a troll, not from a fan since 1973.

chewbacca
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:25 pm

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by chewbacca » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:30 pm

Surely you have got to give the new coaching team the minimum of 2 seasons. Yes results after the restart in a number of games of little significance have been disappointing to us spectators but we have no idea what SB set out to achieve or whether he did or did not.
I'm not cynical just experienced

ads
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by ads » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:47 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:59 pm
I agree with the OP,I like to imagine where we would be with this set of players under other DOR/HC,11th? Absolutely not! Hence it’s a coaching staff problem
So you want a new head coach then, after 3 or 4 months?

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3621
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Scott1 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:58 pm

ads wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:47 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:59 pm
I agree with the OP,I like to imagine where we would be with this set of players under other DOR/HC,11th? Absolutely not! Hence it’s a coaching staff problem
So you want a new head coach then, after 3 or 4 months?
No ,I just want my HC to be allowed free reign then we can decide if he’s up for it not. All I see is excuses after excuses and it gets rather tedious

kk20gb30
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:01 pm
Location: Over The Hills & Far Away

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by kk20gb30 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:42 am

Our new and current regime have to be given the opportunity to stand of fall - any change to personnel would simply be counter productive and send out completely the wrong message.I can't pretend to be able to evaluate exactly what has been learnt since the re start , nor do I necessarily agree with everything I've witnessed in terms of selection and game plan but I am prepared to give the guys in charge a chance at least- their knowledge exceeds my own.
As for playing the game with a smile - well , winning Rugby is happy Rugby - that all it'll take.We need and have to get into the habit of winning , then we will all be able to smile a little more.

:smt001 - just trying to get some practice in ......

Cagey Tiger
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1896
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: South Lincolnshire

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Cagey Tiger » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:44 am

Scott1 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:58 pm
ads wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:47 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:59 pm
I agree with the OP,I like to imagine where we would be with this set of players under other DOR/HC,11th? Absolutely not! Hence it’s a coaching staff problem
So you want a new head coach then, after 3 or 4 months?
No ,I just want my HC to be allowed free reign then we can decide if he’s up for it not. All I see is excuses after excuses and it gets rather tedious
Who says that he isn't being given free reign, well as much as the normal constraints at any club allow? And don't dig out that old quote from GM in January as that has been superceded.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3621
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by Scott1 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:21 pm

Cagey Tiger wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:44 am
Scott1 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:58 pm
ads wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:47 pm


So you want a new head coach then, after 3 or 4 months?
No ,I just want my HC to be allowed free reign then we can decide if he’s up for it not. All I see is excuses after excuses and it gets rather tedious
Who says that he isn't being given free reign, well as much as the normal constraints at any club allow? And don't dig out that old quote from GM in January as that has been superceded.
Who says he has? Looks like a GM to me!

BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Coaching Staff vs International Players

Post by BFG » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:37 pm

When you're struggling on the gain line for as long as Leicester have been and been under extra pressure from defenders regularly being allowed to push the offside by refs because you're being forced back so often then playing deeper and kicking the ball away becomes a habit.
Leicester have got new coaches, the internationals aren't known big ball carriers, the entire squad was then furloughed and the biggest ball carrier went to Sale because of coronavirus.
There ain't no instant magic coaching wand and it was going to be a struggle.
So, it's probably best to use the time as wisely as possible and test your players on their defensive basics by exposing them because in all honesty it's unlikely that they were going to win that many matches in a meaningful way anyway given the circumstances above.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests