Legal case with ex-players

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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:12 am

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest- ... l-dispute/

Obviously it could all be bluster and bluff but this is the latest article on the subject.

Interestingly the only one without a club Eastmomd is one of the two (supposedly) who hasn't decided yet to sue (the other being TV, but of all the players and where they have ended up Veainu is about the only one who might be on more money).
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by Tiglon » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:33 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:20 am
I don't know enough about this, but I assume that there will be a lot of cases where employers have forced paycuts on people in the courts now? So will it be clear to both sides who is likely to win and a settlement will be reached soonish?
It's easier in normal employment situations where you can give an employee the choice of pay cut or redundancy. Or redundancy then re-join in different role with pay cut. Bit more difficult when employees are on fixed term contracts and all have the same job title and therefore not made redundant, just dismissed. The law does allow for dismissing an employee if they refuse to change their contract, but you have to prove there was no alternative and you did everything possible to avoid it - however I don't know how that works with fixed term contracts and it's a very difficult thing to get away with at the best of times.

I posted a case earlier on of a basketball team that did exactly the same thing as Tigers a couple of years ago and the player won. Easily. Perhaps the context is different enough and Tigers have a chance.

To be honest, I would still expect a settlement. All this talk of "I'll see you in court" is often just part of the negotiation.

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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by ay2oh » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:39 pm

Can’t see any of the rebels getting a very warm welcome if they return to Welford road with another team after this debacle.
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by SthrnTiger » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:44 pm

Ignoring everything else if contesting the case means that Tigers wouldn’t have to pay out for a decent amount of time, other posters suggesting could take years to get to court, then may not be that bad an option even if end up paying more. Given at the moment all about keeping cash reserves up so can keep club going.

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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:55 pm

SthrnTiger wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:44 pm
Ignoring everything else if contesting the case means that Tigers wouldn’t have to pay out for a decent amount of time, other posters suggesting could take years to get to court, then may not be that bad an option even if end up paying more. Given at the moment all about keeping cash reserves up so can keep club going.
Question say this takes 2 years to sort, but the case goes against us, which year's salary cap is the ruling going to affect?
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by SthrnTiger » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:02 pm

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:55 pm
SthrnTiger wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:44 pm
Ignoring everything else if contesting the case means that Tigers wouldn’t have to pay out for a decent amount of time, other posters suggesting could take years to get to court, then may not be that bad an option even if end up paying more. Given at the moment all about keeping cash reserves up so can keep club going.
Question say this takes 2 years to sort, but the case goes against us, which year's salary cap is the ruling going to affect?
I’m no expert on this but my understanding is that it goes in the season that they actually played. This to avoid giving players a ‘pension’ for many years after leave the club.

Given premiership rugby governs itself, overall I would be very surprised if this caused Tigers to come unstuck with the salary cap ‘unprecedented times’ and all that.

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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by Tiglon » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:47 pm

"any payment or benefit in kind paid in respect of a Player in connection with his redundancy or the termination of his playing contract with the Club including all redundancy or termination payments" count towards the salary cap year in which the contract terminates - so in this instance, it would be 19-20.

If Tigers were to lose it might well push them over the salary cap for last season, but it would be harsh if there was much (if any) punishment for that - especially 2 years down the line after any tribunal.

If Tigers really do let this go to a tribunal, it could well be because to pay out say £1m in 2 years time would be less of a problem than paying out £500k now.

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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:48 am

Its doesn't change the fact that only 5 employees of the club who were offered an amended contract/salary on the same basis as everyone else chose not to sign it, I think that says everything about the 5, poorly advised or bad people?
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by trendylfj » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:31 am

Don't forget that the cap didn't get reduced by 25% and the player's salaries did so I do not see any danger of us exceeding the cap if we do eventually have to pay money to the 5. A more difficult question for me is the fairness element to the players who did accept the reduction. I believe that the deal made includes the promise to repay the deductions later when the club returns to "normality". Will that affect the possibility of exceeding the cap in 19/20 season - hard to say as most clubs are in the same position.
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by mol2 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:41 am

I suspect that any costs or compensation awarded against the players won’t technically be deemed salary or rewards in lieu of salary so the cap probably won’t be an issue.

If the legal case or tribunal decides that the contracts remain valid and Tigers have to return them to their employment then the salary may be an issue. Could end up with Manu back having been crocked by Sale and still have to pay him! Nothing new there!

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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by trendylfj » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:07 pm

Not being versed in the law but I did a bit of research and came across this on the gov web page - https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/reasons-yo ... -dismissed

A ‘substantial reason’
You may be dismissed fairly if, for example:

you unreasonably refuse to accept a company reorganisation that changes your employment terms

Make of that what you will but Tigers certainly had to reorganise so the question must be about the reasonability of the player's action in refusing the changes in their employment terms.
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by Tiglon » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:54 pm

mol2 wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:41 am
I suspect that any costs or compensation awarded against the players won’t technically be deemed salary or rewards in lieu of salary so the cap probably won’t be an issue.

If the legal case or tribunal decides that the contracts remain valid and Tigers have to return them to their employment then the salary may be an issue. Could end up with Manu back having been crocked by Sale and still have to pay him! Nothing new there!
Any payment arising from termination of contract counts towards the cap. It's in the salary cap rules. As someone else said, other salaries have been reduced, so that may help, but that was only from a couple of months before the end of the season so might not make a huge difference.
by trendylfj » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:07 pm

Not being versed in the law but I did a bit of research and came across this on the gov web page - https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/reasons-yo ... -dismissed

A ‘substantial reason’
You may be dismissed fairly if, for example:

you unreasonably refuse to accept a company reorganisation that changes your employment terms

Make of that what you will but Tigers certainly had to reorganise so the question must be about the reasonability of the player's action in refusing the changes in their employment terms.
The question is whether it was a reorganisation, or just telling people they're getting less money?

ads
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by ads » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:29 pm

What's the worst that can happen if we do end up breaching the salary cap? We get deducted a few points and still finish 11th...

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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by Tigerbeat » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:38 pm

ads wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:29 pm
What's the worst that can happen if we do end up breaching the salary cap? We get deducted a few points and still finish 11th...
Didnt Wasps and Quins go over the cap but this was never intentional. If I recall, they were fined a few thousand pounds.
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Re: Legal case with ex-players

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:24 am

Tigerbeat wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:38 pm
Didnt Wasps and Quins go over the cap but this was never intentional. If I recall, they were fined a few thousand pounds.
Quin's overran by about £12k due to an IT/system issue (someone messed up an Excel formula).

Wasps went 'slightly' over the cap to the tune of about £40k. There was some questions around whether certain things fall into or out of the cap which tipped them over.

Both got fined 50p for every £1 overspend.

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