The Rebuild

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JP14
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by JP14 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:48 pm

Brookes would behind Toomaga-Allen if the latter was fit this weekend.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

westwinds31
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by westwinds31 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:51 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:29 pm
If you were to make a XV from Wasps and Tigers, what would it look like? I would go with something like:

Cole
Taylor
Genge
Launchbury
Lavanini
Willis
Taufua
Liebenberg
Robson
Ford
Nadolo
Gopperth
Fekitoa
Bassett
Murimurivalu

Seems pretty even to me. OK, Barbeary might be in there in 6 months, and you could go for Minozzi instead of Muri (but Steward might be walking into 15 after a few more matches), perhaps Shields ahead of Taufua or Liebenberg. Otherwise, that's 8 Tigers and 7 Wasps. Is their squad really much better than ours? Are we really 3-5 years away from having players good enough to compete with them?
Be careful what you wish for. A merger might be an option. I honestly would have the Wasps starting 15 yesterday, maybe Ford slots in but Umaga is arguably in better form.

Scott1
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by Scott1 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:02 pm

Can’t believe we are talking about missed tackles when talking about professional players,that’s really crazy to me!

BFG
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by BFG » Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:10 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:02 pm
Can’t believe we are talking about missed tackles when talking about professional players,that’s really crazy to me!
Most teams miss tackles it's just that some are better prepared to miss less and others are better prepared to scramble.
You notice more when you lose.
I haven't looked but I'd bet that Wasps missed a few tackles yesterday.

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:28 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:48 pm
Brookes would behind Toomaga-Allen if the latter was fit this weekend.
Brookes would be behind Probyn if he turned up with his boots.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

westwinds31
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by westwinds31 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:05 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:28 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:48 pm
Brookes would behind Toomaga-Allen if the latter was fit this weekend.
Brookes would be behind Probyn if he turned up with his boots.
I heard O’Connor is still at the Ricoh looking for his ribs ...after that Brookes bone cruncher.

fentiger
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by fentiger » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:17 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:28 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:48 pm
Brookes would behind Toomaga-Allen if the latter was fit this weekend.
Brookes would be behind Probyn if he turned up with his boots.
^^ This :smt023

Not a jock
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by Not a jock » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:33 pm

Given the short turnaround between the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons and assuming all squads have been assembled fully post-lockdown then the post-lockdown results should be a guide as to what might happen next season. On the basis of these nine rounds of league games, this is what the table looks like (points, ignoring Salarysins deductions):

Wasps 38
Bath 37
Bristol 31
Exeter 29
Saracens 25
Sale 24
Harlequins 23
Gloucester 20
Worcester 20
Leicester 9
Northampton 7
London Irish 6

If replicated next season then a relegation dogfight with Stains, Not Quites (and possibly Deano's old boys) beckons. It might surprise some to see Wuss out of this particular frame.

No doubt some will trot out the "we were rebuilding" type excuses but most teams didn't have a lot to play for so were also presumably taking the opportunity to rotate squads and blood development players?

Some may recall that the pre-lockdown table finished like this:

Exeter 45
Saracens 42
Sale 40
Bristol 38
Northampton 35
Wasps 33
Bath 30
Harlequins 28
London Irish 28
Gloucester 26
Worcester 22
Leicester 20

What a difference a couple of useful players make to their team's performance. (Jack Willis & Cobus Reinhart to name but two).

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Re: The Rebuild

Post by ay2oh » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:07 pm

Not a jock wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:33 pm
Given the short turnaround between the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons and assuming all squads have been assembled fully post-lockdown then the post-lockdown results should be a guide as to what might happen next season. On the basis of these nine rounds of league games, this is what the table looks like (points, ignoring Salarysins deductions):

Wasps 38
Bath 37
Bristol 31
Exeter 29
Saracens 25
Sale 24
Harlequins 23
Gloucester 20
Worcester 20
Leicester 9
Northampton 7
London Irish 6

If replicated next season then a relegation dogfight with Stains, Not Quites (and possibly Deano's old boys) beckons. It might surprise some to see Wuss out of this particular frame.

No doubt some will trot out the "we were rebuilding" type excuses but most teams didn't have a lot to play for so were also presumably taking the opportunity to rotate squads and blood development players?

Some may recall that the pre-lockdown table finished like this:

Exeter 45
Saracens 42
Sale 40
Bristol 38
Northampton 35
Wasps 33
Bath 30
Harlequins 28
London Irish 28
Gloucester 26
Worcester 22
Leicester 20

What a difference a couple of useful players make to their team's performance. (Jack Willis & Cobus Reinhart to name but two).
I don’t get your logic. Due to the fact that teams were playing twice a week and were having to mix and match teams and also that some teams had nothing to play for, l don’t agree that the results will have any bearing on next season. In addition to this due to the prolification of international matches at the beginning of next season some teams will be shorn of their best players for most of the season.
It will be interesting to see how some of the top teams cope should their better players get international call-ups. Eg Willis, Dombrant, and the saffas at Sale
A2O

JWM
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by JWM » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:48 am

Why is it we making a Tigers/Wasps XV again?
Dokie wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:44 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:29 pm
If you were to make a XV from Wasps and Tigers, what would it look like? I would go with something like:

Cole
Taylor
Genge
Launchbury
Lavanini
Willis
Taufua
Liebenberg
Robson
Ford
Nadolo
Gopperth
Fekitoa
Bassett
Murimurivalu

Seems pretty even to me. OK, Barbeary might be in there in 6 months, and you could go for Minozzi instead of Muri (but Steward might be walking into 15 after a few more matches), perhaps Shields ahead of Taufua or Liebenberg. Otherwise, that's 8 Tigers and 7 Wasps. Is their squad really much better than ours? Are we really 3-5 years away from having players good enough to compete with them?
Brookes for Cole
Rowlands for Lavanini
Young for Taufua
Kibrigie for Bassett
Steward for Muri

That’s a 10-5 split but it’s not the numbers, it’s the style of play and the intent to play which are the biggest factors.
ST in new Clubhouse stand ... sadly, my back's no longer up to standing :-(

TigerFeetSteve
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Delays to the Rebuild

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:24 am

https://www.ruck.co.uk/two-premiership- ... -furlough/


This isn't great for Tigers they have a squad that needs to try and gel together.

Also won't be great that the best paid guys (internationals) are still on full wages as they're ineligible for furlough while the lower paid guys are the ones who'll have to take a cut.

Show's the severity of the situation though doesn't it.

Let's hope the government take note. This is clubs trying to work out how to get the money to survive without fans...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

kk20gb30
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by kk20gb30 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:27 am

How long is our task is impossible to say.What I would speculate on is the actual size - and judging by what was witnessed during both Gallagher Semi finals the size of any rebuild is massive as we seem light years away from the standards set by those four clubs.We are watching different games attempting to be executed.
The optimism when we are not playing seems to out weigh the reality of performance when we do.

Not a jock
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by Not a jock » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:54 am

kk20gb30 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:27 am
How long is our task is impossible to say.What I would speculate on is the actual size - and judging by what was witnessed during both Gallagher Semi finals the size of any rebuild is massive as we seem light years away from the standards set by those four clubs.We are watching different games attempting to be executed.
The optimism when we are not playing seems to out weigh the reality of performance when we do.
Yes, I agree and a four letter word comes to mind - it's 'gulf' (other FLWs are available / applicable). Until the Chiefs started putting out their third XV they were still beating whatever was put in front of them. Watching the play-off semis on Saturday was like watching a different sport.

If you can't win a home game with close to your strongest team against a mid-table side also missing a few first choice players (eg Quins) then you're likely to be near the basement.

Remember the time when Tigers were sometimes called the Manchester United of rugby? Unfortunately that analogy could still be true if you think of the revolving doors of coaches and players, and the trophy cabinet door hinges seizing up.

Tiglon
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Re: The Rebuild

Post by Tiglon » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:02 am

kk20gb30 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:27 am
How long is our task is impossible to say.What I would speculate on is the actual size - and judging by what was witnessed during both Gallagher Semi finals the size of any rebuild is massive as we seem light years away from the standards set by those four clubs.We are watching different games attempting to be executed.
The optimism when we are not playing seems to out weigh the reality of performance when we do.
I completely agree, we are still playing badly. But what do we actually still need to do and should it actually take years? Surely it's now just gelling the team together and some decent coaching - surely that shouldn't take 3-5 years? Some of our first teamers will be retired before then...

Tiglon
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Re: Delays to the Rebuild

Post by Tiglon » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:04 am

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:24 am
https://www.ruck.co.uk/two-premiership- ... -furlough/


This isn't great for Tigers they have a squad that needs to try and gel together.

Also won't be great that the best paid guys (internationals) are still on full wages as they're ineligible for furlough while the lower paid guys are the ones who'll have to take a cut.

Show's the severity of the situation though doesn't it.

Let's hope the government take note. This is clubs trying to work out how to get the money to survive without fans...
Not sure why the England players wouldn't be eligible. You can be furloughed by one employer and do work for another.

Also, you don't know whether anyone is taking a pay cut, I hardly think all the players are having their monthly wage cut to £2,500 for October, the club is probably topping it up and using it to save a couple of grand on each player until the end of the month.

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