DoR?

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sam16111986
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Re: DoR?

Post by sam16111986 »

fortysix wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:58 am Everything about Murphy screams FAILURE.
Nice guy he is, its a cruel world in Pro Sport, and how he has kept in his position overlording such an incredible playing downslide, such diabolical coaching, heaven only knows.
The problem is, all this supporters negativity filters through to the players, and really, the money spent on him would be miles better spent on 3 quality foreign players.
As anyone with a hole in their head would agree with. But, he keeps his postion.. Why ???????
How much does Murphy get paid then?
JP14
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Re: DoR?

Post by JP14 »

Robespierre wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:55 am Do Tigers need a DoR?

How many other Premiership clubs have a DoR and a head coach?

Exeter - Rob Baxter head coach
Wasps - Lee Blackett
Bath - Stuart Hooper
Bristol - Pat Lam
Sale - Ruff Diamond
Quins - Paul Gustard
Newcastle - Deano

Do these clubs have a head coach and a DoR?
Stuart Hooper is DOR and Hatley is head coach at Bath.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
TigerintheCatStand
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Re: DoR?

Post by TigerintheCatStand »

I would be very interested to know how Murphy and Borthwick split the work load, who is in charge of the tactics, the match day decisions, the selection.

Does anyone on here actually know?
DingDong
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Re: DoR?

Post by DingDong »

Seems to me to be some double standards on this thread. Posters are unhappy about the constant criticism of our DoR who's job it is to be accountable. Yet posters are themselves happy to constantly criticise other posters who highlight Murphy's failures. Am i the only one who sees the hypocrisy in this?
Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: DoR?

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

Deano has never been a coach per se, & has been the steering hand wherever he has been, maybe that's what GMs role will be, I think we should give the whole coaching team time to settle into their roles, personally I hope our DOR does one on one coaching with Steward if no one else.
Some people should separate GM as coach & GM as DOR, I think his role during Covid has been much more than some would imagine.
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Re: DoR?

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

To my mind GM is not a great head coach. However since he joined the coaching and management side there has been a significant improvement with the academy which he has contributed to. I think the club always planned him being DOR and he was only warming the Head coach chair till they got the right guy as head coach, I think his skills are more suited to the role he's in now. Lets give them a chance to sort things out and rebuild. I think GM can be a big success as DOR just give him a chance.

I for one won't count his performance as Head coach against him for a significantly different role.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
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Re: DoR?

Post by Brutus »

Professional sport is funny in that it causes grown men, women and non-binary folk get all worked up over events that they have no control over and make personal attacks on people they have never met.

Murphy’s record as head coach in terms of results was terrible, nobody in the right mind would question that. There were several mitigating factors - including a team that was patched together based on a confusing mix of recruitment strategies by multiple prior coaches with short reigns at the club.

Whilst you would prefer to blood youngsters in a successful team with a stable nucleus of senior players, you can’t fault the opportunities the youngsters have had - this has all been under Murphy’s watch. Many of these youngsters won’t meet the standard required to get Tigers back to where most fans feel they belong but some will and if they do, they will be first team players who contribute to salary cap credits, which can only be a positive for the overall effectiveness of the playing budget. The problem is that all of this a long term benefit and needs to be supplemented in the short term by some quality senior players who are available for the majority of the season.

Under Murphy those players have started to arrive, many of whom cited Murphy’s vision as a big reason for them joining. He has also managed to get some senior coaches with world class reputations to join the hierarchy - they are much more qualified than us fans to gauge his competence and as individuals they have much more riding on their show of faith because if the club doesn’t progress they will be associated with any failure on Murphy’s part.

It has been frustrating to witness recent matches where the only consistencies have been i) a baffling persistence with the ineffective kicking game and ii) the wholesale changes to the lineup from game to game - enforced by the civet flu fixture congestion.

I can only assume that the kicking game was an attempt to emulate the relatively successful England tactics but Tigers’ defence has comparatively been woeful and that tactic has proven to be a resounding failure to date. Who knows, if the coaches persist with that into next season, the defence might improve and with a chance of some selection consistency, some of the other systems practiced in training might manifest themselves as more fluent attacking play and Tigers might actually win a match!
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Re: DoR?

Post by JP14 »

+1 A good post.
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Robespierre
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Re: DoR?

Post by Robespierre »

Brutus wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:55 pm Professional sport is funny in that it causes grown men, women and non-binary folk get all worked up over events that they have no control over and make personal attacks on people they have never met.

Murphy’s record as head coach in terms of results was terrible, nobody in the right mind would question that. There were several mitigating factors - including a team that was patched together based on a confusing mix of recruitment strategies by multiple prior coaches with short reigns at the club.

Whilst you would prefer to blood youngsters in a successful team with a stable nucleus of senior players, you can’t fault the opportunities the youngsters have had - this has all been under Murphy’s watch. Many of these youngsters won’t meet the standard required to get Tigers back to where most fans feel they belong but some will and if they do, they will be first team players who contribute to salary cap credits, which can only be a positive for the overall effectiveness of the playing budget. The problem is that all of this a long term benefit and needs to be supplemented in the short term by some quality senior players who are available for the majority of the season.

Under Murphy those players have started to arrive, many of whom cited Murphy’s vision as a big reason for them joining. He has also managed to get some senior coaches with world class reputations to join the hierarchy - they are much more qualified than us fans to gauge his competence and as individuals they have much more riding on their show of faith because if the club doesn’t progress they will be associated with any failure on Murphy’s part.

It has been frustrating to witness recent matches where the only consistencies have been i) a baffling persistence with the ineffective kicking game and ii) the wholesale changes to the lineup from game to game - enforced by the civet flu fixture congestion.

I can only assume that the kicking game was an attempt to emulate the relatively successful England tactics but Tigers’ defence has comparatively been woeful and that tactic has proven to be a resounding failure to date. Who knows, if the coaches persist with that into next season, the defence might improve and with a chance of some selection consistency, some of the other systems practiced in training might manifest themselves as more fluent attacking play and Tigers might actually win a match!
An interesting and well-structured post from Brutus who remains optimistic with regard to the competence of Geordan Murphy.
Whilst it is undoubtedly true that there is a nucleus of quality senior players are at the club, or shortly will be, I regret that I'm hard pushed to share the optimism.
However, the proof of the pudding etc will be seen before the end of this year and I'd be delighted if the corner will have been turned and some good results will have been strung together.
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Re: DoR?

Post by Cardiff Tig »

Robespierre wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:12 pm
Brutus wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:55 pm Professional sport is funny in that it causes grown men, women and non-binary folk get all worked up over events that they have no control over and make personal attacks on people they have never met.

Murphy’s record as head coach in terms of results was terrible, nobody in the right mind would question that. There were several mitigating factors - including a team that was patched together based on a confusing mix of recruitment strategies by multiple prior coaches with short reigns at the club.

Whilst you would prefer to blood youngsters in a successful team with a stable nucleus of senior players, you can’t fault the opportunities the youngsters have had - this has all been under Murphy’s watch. Many of these youngsters won’t meet the standard required to get Tigers back to where most fans feel they belong but some will and if they do, they will be first team players who contribute to salary cap credits, which can only be a positive for the overall effectiveness of the playing budget. The problem is that all of this a long term benefit and needs to be supplemented in the short term by some quality senior players who are available for the majority of the season.

Under Murphy those players have started to arrive, many of whom cited Murphy’s vision as a big reason for them joining. He has also managed to get some senior coaches with world class reputations to join the hierarchy - they are much more qualified than us fans to gauge his competence and as individuals they have much more riding on their show of faith because if the club doesn’t progress they will be associated with any failure on Murphy’s part.

It has been frustrating to witness recent matches where the only consistencies have been i) a baffling persistence with the ineffective kicking game and ii) the wholesale changes to the lineup from game to game - enforced by the civet flu fixture congestion.

I can only assume that the kicking game was an attempt to emulate the relatively successful England tactics but Tigers’ defence has comparatively been woeful and that tactic has proven to be a resounding failure to date. Who knows, if the coaches persist with that into next season, the defence might improve and with a chance of some selection consistency, some of the other systems practiced in training might manifest themselves as more fluent attacking play and Tigers might actually win a match!
An interesting and well-structured post from Brutus who remains optimistic with regard to the competence of Geordan Murphy.
Whilst it is undoubtedly true that there is a nucleus of quality senior players are at the club, or shortly will be, I regret that I'm hard pushed to share the optimism.
However, the proof of the pudding etc will be seen before the end of this year and I'd be delighted if the corner will have been turned and some good results will have been strung together.
You have to remember as well that both GM and the club acknowledged GM's failings as a head coach very early on. They then searched for a quality HC so he could move up to a role that better suited him. I don't think the club or GM have ever denied that he wasn't a good HC.
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Re: DoR?

Post by kk20gb30 »

So long as their respective job remits dovetail rather than overlap a DoR together with a Head Coach can make an effective combination - each concentrating in/on their respective fields leaving the other free to do the same without unnecessary distraction.People being people however, things can and do get messy.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
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Re: DoR?

Post by Cagey Tiger »

JP14 wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:24 pm+1 A good post.
+1 agreed.
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Re: DoR?

Post by sapajo »

DingDong wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:15 pm Seems to me to be some double standards on this thread. Posters are unhappy about the constant criticism of our DoR who's job it is to be accountable. Yet posters are themselves happy to constantly criticise other posters who highlight Murphy's failures. Am i the only one who sees the hypocrisy in this?
Excellent post!
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Re: DoR?

Post by Dangerous4 »

sapajo wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:42 pm
fortysix wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:58 am Everything about Murphy screams FAILURE.
Nice guy he is, its a cruel world in Pro Sport, and how he has kept in his position overlording such an incredible playing downslide, such diabolical coaching, heaven only knows.
The problem is, all this supporters negativity filters through to the players, and really, the money spent on him would be miles better spent on 3 quality foreign players.
As anyone with a hole in their head would agree with. But, he keeps his postion.. Why ???????
Because the Board seemingly have a very unhealthy blind faith in Murphy and have effectively given him a very lucrative job for life regardless of his experience ability and performance


I think you mean inability . :smt045
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Re: DoR?

Post by Redstripeman »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:14 pm To my mind GM is not a great head coach. However since he joined the coaching and management side there has been a significant improvement with the academy which he has contributed to. I think the club always planned him being DOR and he was only warming the Head coach chair till they got the right guy as head coach, I think his skills are more suited to the role he's in now. Lets give them a chance to sort things out and rebuild. I think GM can be a big success as DOR just give him a chance.

I for one won't count his performance as Head coach against him for a significantly different role.
...I must, in this instance hold it against him.....!!!
Obviously lacks self awareness, has been in several positions and has spectacularly failed in all instances. If the role for DOR was his aim then he should have asked for that role and recruited a coach capable of taking us into the upper reaches of the Premiership. Gustard was available but not picked up while we played musical chairs with GMs' position within the club.
From DOR there are no further roles that he could possibly be looked at within the club, the pressure is now on Borthwick to bring some semblance of success to the club, while the eyes are focused elsewhere it might just allow GM to hold court for a while longer.
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