Pat Howard

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

wellstiger
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 755
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:56 am

Re: Pat Howard

Post by wellstiger » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:26 pm

My glass is half full. Being topped up regularly.
My team is half complete. The wins have been half of what should be expected by my professional outfit.
My confidence is therefore half. Waiting as other seasons in recent times to be topped up.
At the moment I can see signs but then when I see a respectable XV ( as Sunday) they frustrate. ( Captains words - frustrating)

Its patronising to say we are in a camp of half empty against half full when the results ,position and rebuilding is half complete.
Thats Half a rant and I aint half tired .
Back to kip...........

ay2oh
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:53 am
Location: leicester

Re: Pat Howard

Post by ay2oh » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:00 pm

Firstly I agree that we have been very poor this(and last) season. However it was well publicised that since lockdown we would be giving our young players game time to see who could step up.
Borthwick now knows who we should be keeping and who we will be releasing(contracts permitting). If there had been no Covid we would probably played our first choice side every week and may not have finish
11th.
My week-end is ruined when we lose but I have tried to look at the bigger picture and constant sarcasm and sniping at the coaches by some posters wears a bit thin sometimes especially as they offer no constructive solutions, so let’s wait until next season and judge the team then.
A2O

sapajo
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4684
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Pat Howard

Post by sapajo » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:29 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:44 am
sapajo wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:22 am
sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 am


Actually there's a significant difference to the kicking game pre and post lockdown. We previously kicked long looking to get the ball onto the floor to give us time to set the defensive line and move up the field. A 2007 era tactic really. Since Borthwick has arrived we now predominantly kick to compete (when we execute correctly) which is the tactic commonly seen by Sarries and England (Exeter as well when they do kick). As we have Nadolo on the wing he tends to be the target and that makes sense.
Thanks for your insight, for me the question remains do we have the players capable of correctly executing an effective kicking game?
As our halfbacks have well over 150 caps between them the coaches have a right to expect we should.
Fair point, that said, they remain demonstrably unable to correctly execute the kicking game that the coaches have a right to expect they should. Furthermore that inability increases further when their respective stand ins take the field.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

sapajo
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4684
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Pat Howard

Post by sapajo » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:34 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:00 pm
sniping at the coaches by some posters wears a bit thin sometimes especially as they offer no constructive solutions, so let’s wait until next season and judge the team then.
Unfair to criticise supporters who lest you forget are not responsible for offering constructive solutions thats what Murphy et al are allegedly employed to deliver. From what I read on here most criticisms are constructive and for the most part blindingly apparent to most.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

ay2oh
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:53 am
Location: leicester

Re: Pat Howard

Post by ay2oh » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:38 pm

With a potentially very good back line it doesn’t seem to make any sense to constantly kick the ball away. Even when taking kick-offs( of which there are plenty) we still kick too long instead of giving the forwards a chance to compete.
A2O

Redstripeman
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: Pat Howard

Post by Redstripeman » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:08 pm

...If Pat Howard's advice is to play a kick chase game as a template to the future success of the Tigers, then what is the point of getting in a coach who has an alternative approach!!!
We cannot mandate that every potential coach adhere to this method of play, especially if the ideology is wrong.
Borthwick has had a good look at his roster, choosing the teams to play in selective matches made little sense, he leaves no leeway in the start of next season.
No new coach should ever come into a club with the style of play already pre ordained and set in stone.

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4082
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Pat Howard

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:21 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:38 pm
With a potentially very good back line it doesn’t seem to make any sense to constantly kick the ball away. Even when taking kick-offs( of which there are plenty) we still kick too long instead of giving the forwards a chance to compete.
We kick long and chase hard from kick offs because there's no or little chance that the opposition will be able to make a meaningful break. Instead their scrum half will box kick (under pressure) to touch and we'll get a lineout in their half which in theory we should be able to build of. Simple tactic which is hard to get wrong and even we manage to execute it.

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4082
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Pat Howard

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:23 pm

sapajo wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:29 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:44 am
sapajo wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:22 am


Thanks for your insight, for me the question remains do we have the players capable of correctly executing an effective kicking game?
As our halfbacks have well over 150 caps between them the coaches have a right to expect we should.
Fair point, that said, they remain demonstrably unable to correctly execute the kicking game that the coaches have a right to expect they should. Furthermore that inability increases further when their respective stand ins take the field.
I'd say White and Henry have a similar if not better success rate at kicking for our players to compete. Generally as a tactic it's worked quite well. The issue is normally when we gain territory we either don't know what to do with it or give a penalty away. It's a portion of a tactic but we need to start putting the other pieces together. Getting into the opponent's third of the field and then kicking the ball away isn't part of the tactic and that bit badly needs addressing.

AusTiger
Tiger Cub
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:35 pm

Re: Pat Howard

Post by AusTiger » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:53 pm

Re Borthwick, are there parallels of what Eddie Jones did with Japan and some of the England vs Argentina and Barbarians teams where there were interesting youngsters thrown into the teams to test them out when it didn't matter?
It strikes me as sensible that there would be some similarity when the majority of his coaching career has been spent with EJ.

I take from this ending of the season that this was a proving ground from some youngsters. Not what we are expecting to see from the start of next year. With Brink, Taufua, Lavanini, Moroni added to the side against Quins, I think we do a job on them.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: RunTigerRun, Wayne Richardson Fan Club and 2 guests