Pat Howard

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wellstiger
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Pat Howard

Post by wellstiger » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:44 am

Excuse my ignorance and can someone put me right.

The restructuring at Tigers was undertaken on advisement of Pat Howard. The openness, the changes to the coaching structure and all that that incompassess.
Whilst GM was coach he was ( from the horses mouth) in regular contact with PH for advise.
Why then did we not ( or did we ) offer PH DOR. As this was his brain child.
I would assume he has family commitments etc at home.
Would he have been the obvious choice.. Is it too late.?

Coops
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by Coops » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:59 am

Commitments in Australia I would have thought - family, current role etc.

It was far easier (and cheaper) for him to provide support via Skype/Zoom etc at periods throughout the year (monthly I think).

sapajo
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by sapajo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:08 am

Because the club have decided to give Murphy a very well paid job for life despite his job performance record of post player employment.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

ABClub
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by ABClub » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:28 am

sapajo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:08 am
Because the club have decided to give Murphy a very well paid job for life despite his job performance record of post player employment.
Smurfs record as a coach is dire even taking into account the handicap of inheriting a squad that was the result of terrible recruitment for years.

The recruitment and opportunities for academy players in the first XV have both improved since he got a senior role though to be fair.

As long as Smurf has limited to no input in matchday selection and tactics (which the club have said Borthwick now has control of) then I don't mind him being involved off-field with building the squad and bringing academy players through. Whether or not that role should hold the job title DOR is a different discussion.

Frankly, I couldn't care less what job titles individuals have as long as we see improvement. On the basis of the 10 games since restart improvement as a team is still a long way off.

wellstiger
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by wellstiger » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:34 am

That's why I ask the question. PH maintained clear lines of communication and personnel fitted to the role.
Two points
1) The Tigers game still looks as it did under Smurf. With the exception of lineout and personnel. So is it still his way of play?
2) If this is SB image of the DNA of Tigers with no input from Smurf. Then we can expect the same for the future.

ABClub
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by ABClub » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:54 am

wellstiger wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:34 am
That's why I ask the question. PH maintained clear lines of communication and personnel fitted to the role.
Two points
1) The Tigers game still looks as it did under Smurf. With the exception of lineout and personnel. So is it still his way of play?
2) If this is SB image of the DNA of Tigers with no input from Smurf. Then we can expect the same for the future.
1. According to the club Borthwick is now in charge of selection and tactics. The England side he was involved with coaching rely heavily on kick chase, playing without the ball a lot, trusting their defence. So it isn't a game plan that Borthwick is unfamiliar with.

2. Only time will tell. Stripping game plans back to basics when a new coach comes in isn't unusual. Neither are kick chase dominated game plans. Executing a simple game plan as poorly as Tigers have isn't usual in professional sport though.

ads
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by ads » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 am

I think it probably best to stop looking backwards and see what the future holds. The new season starts in a few weeks and we still have players to come in and coaches to put plays into place. This coming season should be the turning point or start of, and should be judged accordingly, not the ridiculously affect last season that pretty much meant nothing as soon as Sarries were relegated.

Its time to jump off the band wagons and onto the future bus people.

Keep the Faith (or regain it if you like)....

sam16111986
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by sam16111986 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:19 am

wellstiger wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:34 am
That's why I ask the question. PH maintained clear lines of communication and personnel fitted to the role.
Two points
1) The Tigers game still looks as it did under Smurf. With the exception of lineout and personnel. So is it still his way of play?
2) If this is SB image of the DNA of Tigers with no input from Smurf. Then we can expect the same for the future.
Murphy was only ever promoted to head coach as a short term measure whilst we went after the person to lead the club forward longer term. His job was to keep us in the league until that person arrived. He did so, just. His development of pathways from academy to first team have been good and is a key element that was not developed over the last decade. That gives me hope for his ability as a DOR.

Borthwick has freely admitted it's a full rebuild job. Probably more than he thought. When he joined the only thing that worked was the scrum. So far we've seen improvements in lineout, defence and kick chase. Those things aren't perfect but better than they were. Saturday showed hints of a better kicking mentality (kicking to contest) and some more varied attacking play. Unfortunately both of those areas were executed fairly poorly but going from nothing to something is tough at elite level. Frustratingly it will take time.

I'd expect a lot more kicking to compete next season, with an increased line speed and emphasis on competing at the breakdown unless we are inside the opposition 10m line. As said above this is how England play quite a lot of the time. I've got no issue with that, we're going to need to see big improvements in attacking systems though one thing I have liked is the Steward/Nadolo combination on kick return. Not many teams will keep kicking down that side of the pitch of those two keep linking up as they did Vs Quins.

sapajo
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by sapajo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:26 am

The fact is that our disastrously executed kicking game plan is now 2 seasons in the making and it began when Murphy was appointed Head Coach and despite the appointment of Borthwick it has continued. That is the truth despite all the spin from the club deployed to counter it.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

wellstiger
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by wellstiger » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:44 am

ads wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 am
I think it probably best to stop looking backwards and see what the future holds. The new season starts in a few weeks and we still have players to come in and coaches to put plays into place. This coming season should be the turning point or start of, and should be judged accordingly, not the ridiculously affect last season that pretty much meant nothing as soon as Sarries were relegated.

Its time to jump off the band wagons and onto the future bus people.

Keep the Faith (or regain it if you like)....
I'm on the bus but i don't recognise the route......Do I trust the driver to get me where I want to go or do I get off and wait for another bus

sapajo
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by sapajo » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:51 am

wellstiger wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:44 am
ads wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:57 am
I think it probably best to stop looking backwards and see what the future holds. The new season starts in a few weeks and we still have players to come in and coaches to put plays into place. This coming season should be the turning point or start of, and should be judged accordingly, not the ridiculously affect last season that pretty much meant nothing as soon as Sarries were relegated.

Its time to jump off the band wagons and onto the future bus people.

Keep the Faith (or regain it if you like)....
I'm on the bus but i don't recognise the route......Do I trust the driver to get me where I want to go or do I get off and wait for another bus
I would not get on a bus unless I knew priorly its destination, the route and time taken to get there and the number of stops along the way. Blind faith in an inexperienced and unproven driver (s) in itself does not suffice.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

Scott1
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by Scott1 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:21 am

I wouldn’t get on the bus with a blind driver 😂

ads
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by ads » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:25 am

Its a mystery tour. Everyone loves a bit of mystery don't they?!?

Who knows where we'll end up, Twickenham, Bedford....
Last edited by ads on Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

ads
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by ads » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:27 am

Scott1 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:21 am
I wouldn’t get on the bus with a blind driver 😂
Is it the driver that is blind though, or the Logistics manager?

Scott1
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Re: Pat Howard

Post by Scott1 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:31 am

ads wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:27 am
Scott1 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:21 am
I wouldn’t get on the bus with a blind driver 😂
Is it the driver that is blind though, or the Logistics manager?
Depends who is really in which roles? 😉

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