Positives going forward

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Crofty
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Crofty » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:01 am

Cagey Tiger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:43 am
Crofty wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:12 am
Cagey Tiger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:59 am

My bold.

If you had said 'limited' or something similar instead of zero, I would agree with you, but there has been some improvement in a number of areas (just re-read this thread). However, it has not been sufficient to make a difference to whether we win or lose, just (generally) the margin of defeat has been narrower.
Lose by 8 or lose by 28 makes no material difference to the league points unless you score 4 tries, which we haven't done in a long time now.
But going from losing by 28 to losing by 8 would seem to indicate an improvement. And if the improvement continues, and we lose by 7 or less, that would make a material difference to league points (something that you excluded by your choice of 8, not deliberately, I'm sure :smt002) or, heaven forbid, we might start winning some that previously we would have lost. We were only below LI by 5 (bonus) points. Yes, that's only one place, but we aren't going to go from relegation contenders to play-off contenders in a week.
It was deliberate because it was my point, I didn't say we hadn't improved I said there was no evidence of material improvement, i.e. sufficient improvement to avoid a second relegation, and unless someone other than Sarries have been very naughty boys next time relegation will actually mean a year (or more) in the championship.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

jgriffin
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by jgriffin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:43 am

As a seasoned teacher and former Chief Examiner for a national exam board, I'd suggest we hold off assessment until we are into the real thing - performance in inconsequential circumstances bears only some relation to performance when crunch time looms.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

Cagey Tiger
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Cagey Tiger » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:15 pm

Crofty wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:01 am
Cagey Tiger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:43 am
Crofty wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:12 am


Lose by 8 or lose by 28 makes no material difference to the league points unless you score 4 tries, which we haven't done in a long time now.
But going from losing by 28 to losing by 8 would seem to indicate an improvement. And if the improvement continues, and we lose by 7 or less, that would make a material difference to league points (something that you excluded by your choice of 8, not deliberately, I'm sure :smt002) or, heaven forbid, we might start winning some that previously we would have lost. We were only below LI by 5 (bonus) points. Yes, that's only one place, but we aren't going to go from relegation contenders to play-off contenders in a week.
It was deliberate because it was my point, I didn't say we hadn't improved I said there was no evidence of material improvement, i.e. sufficient improvement to avoid a second relegation, and unless someone other than Sarries have been very naughty boys next time relegation will actually mean a year (or more) in the championship.
"no evidence of material improvement...". Which is the sentiment that I disagreed with in the first place. I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this and wait for the future to unfold.

Scott1
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Scott1 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:03 pm

So last season we stayed up due to our own results and no help scoring 47 tries while conceding 81 with 5 TBP and 8 LBP with a PD of -154 while this season Sarries kept us up and we scored 35 tries while conceding 79 with 1 TBP and 2 LBP with a PD of -235 yet apparently we’ve improved? 🙈

jgriffin
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by jgriffin » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:12 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:03 pm
So last season we stayed up due to our own results and no help scoring 47 tries while conceding 81 with 5 TBP and 8 LBP with a PD of -154 while this season Sarries kept us up and we scored 35 tries while conceding 79 with 1 TBP and 2 LBP with a PD of -235 yet apparently we’ve improved? 🙈
Stop shooting at straw men and wait for the real targets, when the season is under way.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

Cagey Tiger
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Cagey Tiger » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:18 am

Scott1 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:03 pm
So last season we stayed up due to our own results and no help scoring 47 tries while conceding 81 with 5 TBP and 8 LBP with a PD of -154 while this season Sarries kept us up and we scored 35 tries while conceding 79 with 1 TBP and 2 LBP with a PD of -235 yet apparently we’ve improved? 🙈
If you want to select your own comparison period, rather than the one under discussion, that's up to you, but makes it irrelevant to my comment.

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