Positives going forward

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kk20gb30
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by kk20gb30 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:50 am

The renascence of Tom Youngs , not always the coolest of heads as a captain but a leader you would gladly follow....

Tiglon
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Tiglon » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:35 pm

kk20gb30 wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:50 am
The renascence of Tom Youngs , not always the coolest of heads as a captain but a leader you would gladly follow....
Really delighted that he's playing so well after a few years of criticism. A great Tiger.

ay2oh
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by ay2oh » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:48 pm

Positives :
Line out improved
Driving mauls better
Fitness
Nedalo, Steward, Liebenberg , Wallace, Henry, Potter, Leatigaga, Martin, Scott, Reffell, Porter, Henderson, Murimurivalu .
A2O

aslongaswebeatsaints
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by aslongaswebeatsaints » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:59 pm

Positives.
Great signings and recruitment
A plan that everyone buys in to
Signs that it’s a squad rather than individuals
Fitness
Improved pack
Youngster development
Squad looking balanced with depth
Line Out
Breakdown and driving maul
Coaches
A good clear out.
New CEO and positive Board level changes
Better comms

Areas for improvement:
Attack
Turning the above into results from next season

Negatives:
Impact of COVID
Fellow fans who only see the negatives.

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by DingDong » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:31 pm

aslongaswebeatsaints wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:59 pm
Positives.
Great signings and recruitment
A plan that everyone buys in to
Signs that it’s a squad rather than individuals
Fitness
Improved pack
Youngster development
Squad looking balanced with depth
Line Out
Breakdown and driving maul
Coaches
A good clear out.
New CEO and positive Board level changes
Better comms

Areas for improvement:
Attack
Turning the above into results from next season

Negatives:
Impact of COVID
Fellow fans who only see the negatives.
I'd agree with all of that, and i'd also add that our defence structure is so much better - just need the individuals to make those tackles!

Next season i'm hoping Murphy is the glue to hold those positives together as DoR, leaving the coaches well alone to do their jobs.

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Big Dai » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:08 pm

Forwards generally improved since the "I know.... Let's have a stellar backline" idea backfired (No pun intended.)

Looking forward to watching ball winners and ball retainers supplying good ball.

........... Just got to kick the kicking habit.
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by DingDong » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:32 pm

Big Dai wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:08 pm
Forwards generally improved since the "I know.... Let's have a stellar backline" idea backfired (No pun intended.)

Looking forward to watching ball winners and ball retainers supplying good ball.

........... Just got to kick the kicking habit.
Best signing this season Jordan Taufua, sets the bar for all the forwards. The kicking game I think was an end of season strategy to give our defence some vital experience. Rebuild starts from defence upwards. I think the attack will start immediately next season.

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by FrontRowUnionMember » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:48 pm

Season has been hugely disappointing, let’s not sugar coat it, were it not for Sarries salary cap indiscretions, we’d be facing up to a stint in the championship. For a club like ours, that’s simply not acceptable. I don’t think we’re too big to go down, no club is ever too bog for that, your results over an extended period of time like a full seasons, can only ever be a true reflection of where you deserve to be. I just expect better. When you look at the players listed on paper, we shouldn’t be where we are.

Anyhow, onto the positives.

Pack looks leaner and hungrier for work. Additional power runners, already added, and also those incoming, should see us start to challenge fringe defences a lot more, and hopefully create overlaps or mismatches for the outside backs to exploit.
I’ve been quite despondent about the negative attacking play recently, it doesn’t make for good watching, but having taken some time to reflect on the season, I wonder if the change of coaching partway through, allied with the constant selection changes made it difficult to find some rhythm and consistency. I hold some hope that now the coaches initial learning period is out of the way, a solid pre-season should see a more cohesive and dynamic attacking plan start to take shape. We have the right components in my opinion, solid set piece, explosive runners, dangerous outside backs. I look forward to seeing players get to grips with the sort of support lines that can make the most of Nadolo, Murimurivalu etc. Steward already seems to be finding Nadolo, if we can get someone to pick up the secondary offload, we have another useful weapon in out armoury.

Player pluses
T Youngs resurgence.
The group of young locks knocking on the door, all with real size to them.
The influx of some bruising back row players, combined with some additional breakdown presence, balance is looking good.
The 9’s production line is still functioning.
Henry looks an astute capture, seems to play heads up rugby.
Nadolo and Murimurivalu should continue to give us the x-factor we’ve missed since Manu and Veianu, and before them Alex Tuilagi and Goneva left.
Potter and Porter already look like being unheralded yet strong additions.
Steward looks like he could be our Mike Brown, but with greater physical attributes. For the record I rate Brown as England best specialist fullback for some time, others like Watson and Daly have pace and footwork etc, but lack some of the absolute basics he had. Brown lacked a yard of pace to be truly work class, but he had supreme presence under a highball, was defensively strong, picked very intelligent attacking lines, and had a big boot too.

Roll on next season.

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by JP14 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:01 am

Whilst I prefer Watson at fullback to Daly for England, Steward is good enough to be Brown's true successor. Don't want to jinx him though, I remember in 2017 everyone thinking Olowofela was going to be an England international winger.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Bunchy » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:09 am

Agree with a lot on here
Obvious ones from me
* Fitness
* Set piece
* recruitment
* appropriate academy development

These are the cornerstone of any successful side.

I remain hopeful the rest will come in time - but it cant be too long. I look at Bath and Wasps and how far they came in a short time. On paper, we can more than compete with all the top 6 - need to turn that theoretical strong side into an actual strong side though.

We all know one good performance can be all it takes - not just a win but a really strong performance really nailing a side - hope we dont have to wait too long....
Less is more....

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Cagey Tiger » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:54 am

FrontRowUnionMember wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:48 pm
Season has been hugely disappointing, let’s not sugar coat it, were it not for Sarries salary cap indiscretions, we’d be facing up to a stint in the championship. For a club like ours, that’s simply not acceptable. I don’t think we’re too big to go down, no club is ever too bog for that, your results over an extended period of time like a full seasons, can only ever be a true reflection of where you deserve to be. I just expect better. When you look at the players listed on paper, we shouldn’t be where we are.

Anyhow, onto the positives.

Pack looks leaner and hungrier for work. Additional power runners, already added, and also those incoming, should see us start to challenge fringe defences a lot more, and hopefully create overlaps or mismatches for the outside backs to exploit.
I’ve been quite despondent about the negative attacking play recently, it doesn’t make for good watching, but having taken some time to reflect on the season, I wonder if the change of coaching partway through, allied with the constant selection changes made it difficult to find some rhythm and consistency. I hold some hope that now the coaches initial learning period is out of the way, a solid pre-season should see a more cohesive and dynamic attacking plan start to take shape. We have the right components in my opinion, solid set piece, explosive runners, dangerous outside backs. I look forward to seeing players get to grips with the sort of support lines that can make the most of Nadolo, Murimurivalu etc. Steward already seems to be finding Nadolo, if we can get someone to pick up the secondary offload, we have another useful weapon in out armoury.

Player pluses
T Youngs resurgence.
The group of young locks knocking on the door, all with real size to them.
The influx of some bruising back row players, combined with some additional breakdown presence, balance is looking good.
The 9’s production line is still functioning.
Henry looks an astute capture, seems to play heads up rugby.
Nadolo and Murimurivalu should continue to give us the x-factor we’ve missed since Manu and Veianu, and before them Alex Tuilagi and Goneva left.
Potter and Porter already look like being unheralded yet strong additions.
Steward looks like he could be our Mike Brown, but with greater physical attributes. For the record I rate Brown as England best specialist fullback for some time, others like Watson and Daly have pace and footwork etc, but lack some of the absolute basics he had. Brown lacked a yard of pace to be truly work class, but he had supreme presence under a highball, was defensively strong, picked very intelligent attacking lines, and had a big boot too.

Roll on next season.
While I agree with most of this, I have to take issue with:

"were it not for Sarries salary cap indiscretions, we’d be facing up to a stint in the championship".

Yes it was quite likely, but if we were in a relegation battle, I strongly suspect that the quite a few of the teams selected by SB would have had a very different look to them, with potentially different outcomes. Anyway, pure speculation.

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by MCC1964 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:33 pm

FrontRowUnionMember wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:48 pm
...were it not for Sarries salary cap indiscretions, we’d be facing up to a stint in the championship.
No, no, no. no, no. We COULD have faced a stint in the Championship. That's the most you can say. There is no way that even this club would have pursued the playing policy that we did should Sarries have not already been relegated and relegation was a genuine issue. Now, I'm not saying that we wouldn't have been relegated, but you cannot say we would have. Might have at most.

Rant over......

Don't get me going on when people say 'had we had those three disallowed tries allowed we would have won the game'....

I'll get my me coat. :smt003

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by Crofty » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:27 am

To the last two commenters, genuine question, had the relegation battle been live, given the constraints of the compressed schedule, how do you think our selections would have differed?
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

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Re: Positives going forward

Post by mol2 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:45 am

Attitude improved.
Lineout improved.
Defensive linespeed improved but still much work on defence to do.
Fitness improved.

Forwards:
Scrum continues to function well.
Back row looks to be at premiership level rather than fairly ordinary back row second row utility players.

Backs:
Steward at 15 a big step up - links very well with Nadolo.
Back up players look more capable.

Now come the negatives:
Attack seems uncoordinated.
Youngs & Ford at half backs did not function as we would hope - woeful kicking game/strategy.
The above compounded by a lack of pace in the centres or wings. (Example being only Steward was making ground on Dombrant - a 115Kg No 8)

Do we need a backs/attack coach?
Ford is a proven defence coach but seemd cluless when he was our attack coach and frankly Murphy's wisest call as DOR would be to keep well away from the day to day coaching, selection and playing strategy of the First 15.

JP14
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Re: Positives going forward

Post by JP14 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:50 am

Dombrandt maybe a 115kg No8 but he is quick, very very rarely will a player be able to catch up with an opponent once an intercept is made, it's just how it is.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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