How much pain....... Tiger in Exeter

[jgriffin]

With 4 Chiefs fans in siblings and then drinks at the Blue Ball with more of the blighters. They were kind... ish. Painful examination of Tigers woes.... They still think sacking Cockers was the beginning.....club needs a Baxter apparently.
Rowe is lining up his hardcase son to take over but the money men are hovering here.

[JP14]

Talking of Exeter, having seem their third kit, you can see why Rowe was determined to hold his own regarding calls for branding.

I reckon he would make a cracking Mr Birling!

[kk20gb30]

To me it is kind of ironic....
I thought at the time and still do that Richard Cockerill's tenure as DoR had reached a natural - if forced and disingenuous by the powers that be - conclusion.After all there are only so many ways and times you can say (or shout) the same thing.
The irony in this ?
Well ,for me at any rate , but for his previous time here he would have been the perfect choice to walk into Welford Road and sort out the shambles that The club has become since his departure - a strong man with a strong personality ,his own ideas and with no compromises.
Strange really , that ; though I'm sure many will disagree.....

[RagingBull]

For me the problems started about 3 years before Cockers got sacked.
Our players seem to cover up the cracks in the coaching team.
Murphy, Hamilton, Allen, Flood, Youngs covered up the cracks in MOC backs plan.
Once they started going due to age, injuries and being mess about with England our Attack goes down the drain.

Instead of looking at getting another pure backs coach we went and tried Mauger at Head coach.
It was on paper honestly a good move.

BUT we then got rid of the players who was keeping our forwards in place.
Parling with the lineout
Salvi with defence
One is now the forwards coach for Australia now and the other is the defence coach of the best team in the league and in the champions cup final? and is it any wonder how both went to pot after they went?

Then looking back at it MOC trading Slater for May was really the end of clear on field leadership.
Even though it was on paper a good deal, and May was class for us.

AND you had Cockers and MOC (With the help of some people in academy setup at the time) wrecked it

So we went into this season really
With no Attack
With no Defence
With no Lineout
With no Leadership
and a academy that has only really started to get back in action 3 years ago (IMO it takes around 5 years for most academy classes to bear fruit).
All built up over 7 years. (Or should I say torn down).
I don't think no other club has gone through a systematic tear down as that. Usually it's one or the other.

Now Borthwick has come in and I will say in what 4 months fixed the lineout aspect.

Really I don't know how long it will take to fix, it isn't going to be a 4 months thing even if you had Scott Robertson or Eddie Jones in charge.

[BFG]

For me the problems started about 3 years before Cockers got sacked.
Our players seem to cover up the cracks in the coaching team.
Murphy, Hamilton, Allen, Flood, Youngs covered up the cracks in MOC backs plan.
Once they started going due to age, injuries and being mess about with England our Attack goes down the drain.

Instead of looking at getting another pure backs coach we went and tried Mauger at Head coach.
It was on paper honestly a good move.

BUT we then got rid of the players who was keeping our forwards in place.
Parling with the lineout
Salvi with defence
One is now the forwards coach for Australia now and the other is the defence coach of the best team in the league and in the champions cup final? and is it any wonder how both went to pot after they went?

Then looking back at it MOC trading Slater for May was really the end of clear on field leadership.
Even though it was on paper a good deal, and May was class for us.

AND you had Cockers and MOC (With the help of some people in academy setup at the time) wrecked it

So we went into this season really
With no Attack
With no Defence
With no Lineout
With no Leadership
and a academy that has only really started to get back in action 3 years ago (IMO it takes around 5 years for most academy classes to bear fruit).
All built up over 7 years. (Or should I say torn down).
I don't think no other club has gone through a systematic tear down as that. Usually it's one or the other.

Now Borthwick has come in and I will say in what 4 months fixed the lineout aspect.

Really I don't know how long it will take to fix, it isn't going to be a 4 months thing even if you had Scott Robertson or Eddie Jones in charge.

Spot on assessment.

[sam16111986]

For me the problems started about 3 years before Cockers got sacked.
Our players seem to cover up the cracks in the coaching team.
Murphy, Hamilton, Allen, Flood, Youngs covered up the cracks in MOC backs plan.
Once they started going due to age, injuries and being mess about with England our Attack goes down the drain.

Instead of looking at getting another pure backs coach we went and tried Mauger at Head coach.
It was on paper honestly a good move.

BUT we then got rid of the players who was keeping our forwards in place.
Parling with the lineout
Salvi with defence
One is now the forwards coach for Australia now and the other is the defence coach of the best team in the league and in the champions cup final? and is it any wonder how both went to pot after they went?

Then looking back at it MOC trading Slater for May was really the end of clear on field leadership.
Even though it was on paper a good deal, and May was class for us.

AND you had Cockers and MOC (With the help of some people in academy setup at the time) wrecked it

So we went into this season really
With no Attack
With no Defence
With no Lineout
With no Leadership
and a academy that has only really started to get back in action 3 years ago (IMO it takes around 5 years for most academy classes to bear fruit).
All built up over 7 years. (Or should I say torn down).
I don't think no other club has gone through a systematic tear down as that. Usually it's one or the other.

Now Borthwick has come in and I will say in what 4 months fixed the lineout aspect.

Really I don't know how long it will take to fix, it isn't going to be a 4 months thing even if you had Scott Robertson or Eddie Jones in charge.

The defence is showing some signs of line speed and competence again but that will take more time. Agree on what you've said.

For me the big moment of error was after initial success Cockers got the DOR title. He was the perfect man when you wanted to win at the weekend but he wasn't the man with a long term plan and neither was head coach O'Connor. If we'd kept Cockers as head coach and had someone planning ahead who was less interested in coaching and so not clashing with Cockers on the day to day and week to week stuff I think Cockers would still be here and we'd be further up the league.

You are spot on with the academy though. Such neglect will take years to overcome though we seem to have started the rebuilding process well.

[wellstiger]

Cockers has put his stamp on Edinb'gh. They play similar.
Shove it up ya jumper, hit the defence hope to break it and crash again.
Very similar his tenure at Tigers. That's why we (Tigers) expected more and believed he ought to move on and the club forward.
Had the board allowed Cockers the level of expenditure on recruitment which we've had recently, then what team would we have had and where would we be now?
Hindsight and all that..............
SB ,not GM, should be his own man and I see a similar no nonsense approach. However, for me, the noney moon period for SB comes to an end Sunday evening.
Then he will earn his stripes.Will he become a Tigers legend? Will he and HIS coaches prove themselves or fail?
One thing for sure - Cockers was and is a Tiger to his core.

[mol2]

I take issue with the suggestion that Mauger’s appointment seemed good on paper.

He had limited experience as a couch back home, and that experience (was hardly positive) did not suggest he was ready for the role at England’s biggest club.

It was just another flawed appointment.

[Dangerous4]

I rue the day that Cockers left. He would, I feel sure, would have put things right his way. He's an inspiration at Edinburgh.

[RagingBull]

I don't see how Cockers would've put things right.
Was putting things right when he had the chance.

Most likely would've been death by a thousand cuts rather than cutting the head right off. (Guess it depends on what you prefer)

Yes he's done well at Edinburgh but the Pro 14 ain't the premiership and Edinburgh still suffer the same problems Tigers did.

[Ilsontiger1725]

Who should take responsibility for this shambles? It can only be the Board and particularly Peter Tom as Executive Chairman. If this was a commercially run organisation with real shareholders holding tradeable shares he would have been asked by the investors to resign long ago. Instead, he still holds the reins and shows no sign of either moving on or contrition!

[RagingBull]

Well the last vote Tom got like 90% of the votes or something.

[johnthegriff]

Several points raised. Personally I have always believed the club were wrong to sack Cocker, he had taken over when the team were in a bad place after Lofreda's reign, under Heyneke Meyer they had not improved but it was early in a journey when he left for personal reasons and Cocker took over unexpectedly taking us to a Heineken Cup Final and a Premiership title that season. Despite our injury hit midfield we enjoyed success in the Premiership over the next few years but not so good in Europe, O'Connor left and Paul Burke was promoted but frankly he wasn't given a fair crack with major injuries in the backs and replacements just not having the quality required. I have to say I thought the introduction of Mauger was a sound idea but obviously the chemistry between the he and Cocker was not right. I wonder who was actually responsible for recruitment generally at that time.
Ged Glyn made changes to the academy and transition structure that after five years or so seems to be bearing fruit and the indications for the future are good.
We need to forget coaches and players who have gone and concentrate on those that are here now, Steve Borthwick is recently appointed Head Coach, I am sure he has had a big say in recruitment and in the type of player he wants, he has now had the opportunity to see his squad including young prospects in match situations and will have made his own judgments regarding ability, attitude and potential, In the new season I expect our team to continue to evolve under his leadership.
Obviously responsibility for the current situation lies ultimately with the Board, just as they were responsible for past success although I don't recall anyone even at an AGM saying "didn't they do well" and in the future as we climb the table I expect credit will rightly go to the coaches and players. We now have a relatively new Board , true Peter Tom is still at it's head and I mindful of past success and off pitch development of our club was one of the ones that voted for him to remain in place. The next AGM will probably take place after the commencement of the new season, a few early victories could influence the mood of those attending.

[Ian Cant]

It wasn’t Cockerill’s fault players left like Twelvetrees, The Tank etc as the club wouldn’t be held to ransom for more money!
Having met Cockerill many times both when he was playing when he came to help coach kids from the Melton area at my Primary school, lead assemblies and then as a coach he was Tigers through and through, just like Baxter is Mr. Exeter.
After the last Premiership Final v Saints ( making him a legend for winning that one) he knew that the club needed to move forward but instead of appointing Mauger as backs and attack coach he was appointed with the idea of moving Cockerill to DOR: not a great idea as Cockerill is a very good coach.
Having watched quite a few Edinburgh matches they play a pretty good mix of rugby, the problem is they don’t spend much on recruitment so on a limited budget compared to Munster, Leinster and Ulster( to a lesser degree) he always has to get the very best out of every player.
Now it’s Borthwick turn to rebuild the playing squad and style of Tigers.
He will only have a chance of being successful if he is allowed to do things his way.
Baxter is very much in charge at Exeter backed by excellent coaches and money.
Tigers are now where Exeter were when they came into the Premiership but, of course Chiefs had the confidence of a winning side from the Championship.
It’s now, only one game, but Quins is a very important game: win it well against a very decent Quins’ side, and it will give the whole club a huge lift. This can they be carried forward to Gloucester next season and to getting that away win in the league.
I also remember when Pat Howard became coach ( with Cockerill) that, again when helping out with coaching primary school kids, that he wanted Tigers to win every game BUT if not to pick up a bonus point every game. Hopefully next season Tigers can have the same, positive attitude.
In the meantime, “Good luck Exeter.” Champions by finishing 1st!