Tigers vs Bristol

[Tiglon]

Hmmmmm. I've been positive since all the changes but it's getting harder, not because of the loss today but the manner of defeat- the near total lack of ambition. The Sarries circa 2010 tactics are fine as a starting point as long as the kicking and defence are at least fairly good. But at the moment they are not, regardless of the team we put out. We also have to understand that the game has changed and we have different players with different skills compared to that Sarries team. If that approach doesn't work, there has to be a plan B.

My worry with the attack is twofold. Firstly our attack coach is unproven at this level and is unlikely to have all the answers, however talented he might be. Secondly there is no one above him who can give him the answers. Surely if you're Borthwick you would want an experienced attack coach in your first HC job? The last thing you need is to have to spend all your time on something that isn't your specialist subject, while also having to learn your own job. When you look at our coaching team, it has promise, but there are an awful lot of people in roles or at levels that are new to them. It is a bit of a gamble - a gamble I'm happy for us to take, but there is a risk that it won't go well.

I've always been of the "it will take time" camp, so I will stick with that and start to judge by Christmas. I don't think it is unrealistic to see a tangible improvement like then, with either a better league position or at least a bit of form that suggests we are moving in the right direction. If we're in 10th/11th by then and still playing a poorly executed kicking game I may well change my position.

[baz1664]

Murphy and Ford need to go as a start, the rest is in the hands of the gods, surely we can recruit coaches with plans and ambition!! It’s all a mess and embarrassing at the moment, SB needs the tools to do the job and he doesn’t at the mo!!

[westwinds31]

All you lot moaning about style of play, selection, coaching etc....what is the way forward then ? I don’t see anyone coming up with ideas of how this supposed desperate situation can be resolved ? Maybe get new coaches in and a fresh set of players and see how that goes ? If after a few games we’re not better than just repeat until it clicks !!? I’m fed up of saying it....it will take time...a number of years to get back to competing with the top 6. If you can’t wait that long then...oh well. If you’re going to judge how it’s all fitting together at Xmas, I think you may be disappointed, so save yourselves the bother.

[Truefollower]

I know it's another loss however I will not be judging SB until he has a full complement, then he can work with his squad and then and only then can he be judged. I am quite happy for him to fully assess the current players at his disposal and probably thank some for their endeavours but politely ease them to pastures new.

[Redstripeman]

Not condoning the performance as it wasn't good but criticism of kicking in those circumstances is a bit naive.
It was wet and Leicester were being taken apart at the scrum, not an ideal situation to start chucking the ball about.
Bristol were far superior and even they suffered many knock ons.

..only after they had got the bonus point and became lax after mass substitutions!!!
The decision to kick the ball away is, the mainstay of our game and as we cannot move the ball on the ground, we attempt to play from deep in the opponents half. The fact that our technical skills are so poor, mastering the ball going through hands is something that continually eludes us.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

The last thing we need is more mass turnover of coaches & players, there were signs in the Toulon game of some attacking strategy that wasn't all kick based, the problem with a lot of our kicking is its rubbish.
We need to pick a proper balanced back row, I know injuries have stopped us to some extent but as long as we select 3 2nd rows in the starting XV it looks negative.
Solving the best 12 to play outside Ford for the team is one of our biggest challenges, alas I wonder if Ford is actually part of that problem.

[Hot_Charlie]

Maybe the odd bench spot.

Steward and Heyes/Leatigaga may well be regular starters at the beginning of the season, along with White and Henry. Gigena too, probably.

They won’t have “the odd bench spot”, particularly with England having quite so many matches.

[wellstiger]

I thought I was watching Prem football till someone ran with the ball in hand.
SB has shown us the Tigers DNA - Kick to the most dangerous full backs in the opposition line ,set your defence and miss tackle to allow them on to your own 22,
We are promised a return to the top with a new DNA and players who are Club first.
Post restart, some individuals have shown moments of flare and skill. In general I have seen nothing which gives me confidence of a return to the top within the next 3-4 seasons.That has been the rate of decline.
It'll take time were told. So I try to keep the faith. Its hard to watch an ever changing team with players out of position performing to earn their way into contention whilst sticking to a failing game plan.
Over the weeks the scrum has gone to pieces. Kicking poorly has crept in. defence at times has been woeful.The attack has been and still is non existent.
And squad members are loosing confidence. GF has has two poor games since restart. BY same old game plan.EG looks out of sorts and they are our senior members who should be leading by example.
I keep the faith. I want to see a change in fortunes but like others.,I am a little frustrated and watching is not good.
Just as well stadiums are void of supporters. I feel empty seats at WRd would be growing.

[westwinds31]

Maybe the odd bench spot.

Steward and Heyes/Leatigaga may well be regular starters at the beginning of the season, along with White and Henry. Gigena too, probably.

They won’t have “the odd bench spot”, particularly with England having quite so many matches.

You're right of course, with potentially Genge, Youngs and Ford away with England, some of those who played today will feature, White I would think and a loose head to replace Genge. The rest may appear on the bench. I'm putting myself in Borthwick's shoes and I think he'll have a list of who, from the squad has put their hand up and can cope with the top level, who needs more work/time and who won't cut it.

[ads]

Thye've sucked us all in, along with the rest of the premiership teams. You watch, we'll be scoring try's for fun next season. They might even show us a few glimpses of what to expect on Sunday....

Seriously, where's that fingers crossed emoji....

[CrumblingTerrace]

All you lot moaning about style of play, selection, coaching etc....what is the way forward then ?

To not 'moan' at getting hammered (again) by 37pts is to accept our current status.

To accept our current status is to accept that we will lose almost every game we play.

And to accept we'll lose almost every game we play is just not something I'm able to do.

[BFG]

Not condoning the performance as it wasn't good but criticism of kicking in those circumstances is a bit naive.
It was wet and Leicester were being taken apart at the scrum, not an ideal situation to start chucking the ball about.
Bristol were far superior and even they suffered many knock ons.

..only after they had got the bonus point and became lax after mass substitutions!!!
The decision to kick the ball away is, the mainstay of our game and as we cannot move the ball on the ground, we attempt to play from deep in the opponents half. The fact that our technical skills are so poor, mastering the ball going through hands is something that continually eludes us.

Don't get me wrong I agree in the main.
I just don't know what folk expect though, other than a miracle.
It's pretty obvious that players who are not good enough to play through the hands are constantly being championed by the same folk moaning about kicking it away.

[Leicestertinytiger]

I’ll admit I was one of the first to support the clubs selection policy during this period. However, looking back I think we would have performed much better if we had mixed the teams up more.

Take yesterday for example, I’m sure if we’d kept the same team but stuck Wells, Youngs, Ford and Taute in say the score line would have been much more respectable. Plus White and Henry playing in a stronger team would do much more for their development.

[ourla]

[I just don't know what folk expect though, other than a miracle.

I only heard some of it on the radio but with that and what I've read here what I don't really get is the tactics. Then again if I look at Saracens, done well maybe those tactics wouldn't seem so daft.

Penalties and missed tackles seem to be a recurring problem.

I saw the Toulon game and that gave me cause for optimism.

Like many I am trying to just be patient. It's not easy though.

[westwinds31]

All you lot moaning about style of play, selection, coaching etc....what is the way forward then ?

To not 'moan' at getting hammered (again) by 37pts is to accept our current status.

To accept our current status is to accept that we will lose almost every game we play.

And to accept we'll lose almost every game we play is just not something I'm able to do.

I'm not happy with the way we're playing, especially yesterday, but can accept the conditions weren't great and weren't made for running rugby. Even a settled, confident Bristol side found problems with the bar of soap in the open spaces. Tries came from the set piece in the main. I'm not accepting our current status either, but I'm old and ugly enough to know that you can't turn a squad around where so much change has happened, within 9 games. New coaching set up and new players, who have been drip fed into the system due to COVID restrictions on travel/visas etc. It would have been a minor miracle for anyone to get a settled squad turned around in that timeframe. Surely people can see that ? Sadly, there's not a magic switch that we can turn on and say "We're Leicester Tigers, we used to be great, we've had a dip and now we're back".

What were people expecting last night ? Seriously ? Bristol are flying high, very confident, have a game plan that everyone has bought into. It hasn't happened overnight though, it's taken a while for them to get to that point. They dominated the scrum and if you can't get parity then you're automatically on the back foot, penalties lead to yellow cards. The kicking game was actually decent in the first half, trying to drop the ball onto their right winger, who's hands were like feet and but for a couple of knock-ons and bounces of the ball, we could have had some joy there. The box kicking and kicking from hand wasn't good, but Luke Wallace said it, when you're in a hole, it's very difficult to get out of. These aren't excuses, we were well beaten and weren't good enough, but there are factors that contributed to the defeat. Tigers had a line up of players who have played together in a match situation maybe 3 or 4 times. Having said that, the penalty count and errors need to be sorted out.

And now what happens ? We get a very short break and then the players are back in pre-season before we go again, with our internationals gone and with a few additions. We'll hopefully get a more settled 23, give or take the odd injury and be able to work on all aspects of the game. It's not going to happen overnight though.

If you don't agree with the above, that's fine, but what would you do to make it better ?