Toulon v Tigers - Challenge Cup Semi

[Traveller]

After ‘the hand of Back’ I never moan about officiating. Strong teams get the rub of the green. I really don’t understand why any negativity around the performance. Nothing is going to change quickly given the scale of the epic mess inherited by Borthwick. He started on July 1st that’s 85+/- days ago. He refers to a ‘gap’. What is it? The gap between Tigers Exeter / Saracens in the last two seasons is Played 8 Lost 8 F111 A211. A hundred points difference. Sale? One victory in four games, F58 A123. Worcester, perennial relegation candidates? We have one victory in four games. F84 A93.

Over the last two seasons, the only team we did the double over was Newcastle who were relegated. We were smashed by the team that was promoted (Irish) and later in the season beat an understrength side by 5 points.

We should think of ourselves as Exeter the year prior to them being promoted to the premiership. That’s the scale of the challenge – humility and patience, and enjoy every lineout caught, and every victory.

[Tiglon]

The officiating was dreadful from start to finish. The "in at the side" leading to one of the tries shouldn't have needed the TMO to intervene, it was blindingly obvious and I was genuinely shocked that the ref didn't call it instantly. The Parisse one was a bit less obvious and with it being "The Great Sergio Parisse" it's not surprising he got away with it - 90% of his talent is in convincing referees and pundits that everything he does is utterly brilliant.

Tigers' tackling was dreadful. No excuses for so many missed tackles, game after game, at this level. Lavanini and Refell were perhaps the exceptions. The coaches need to analyse this and work on it with the relevant players.

Attacking play was improved, a couple of times Murimurivalu attempted an offload to no one, but you can understand that when he's so new to the team - you could see the players are still getting acquainted with each other.

George Ford played like Joe Ford. Let's say no more about it and hope he's back to normal next time out.

Genge put in a terrific performance, great carries and good scrummaging.

Nadolo is just brilliant in every way.

I like Wells, he's a good club player and we need players like him in the squad. However, I am yet to be convinced that he's a top quality flanker. He just doesn't have the athleticism needed these days and looks exactly what he is - a decent lock playing out of position.

Overall, with the officiating, I'm struggling to form an opinion of progress based on that match but progress probably needs to be judged on more than just one match or even a handful of matches. Are we better than Toulon? No, but I didn't expect us to be yet. There were some good individual performances and I still think the future looks more positive, but the kicking and tackling both need some serious work.

Why are Bath, Wasps and Sale improving so much more quickly than us? Let's ask that question when they've done so consistently. We were asking the same question of Saints and Glouc very recently - the truth is that after Exeter and Sarries there is very little between most clubs and making that jump from lower-mid table to the playoffs doesn't require a huge improvement. We've had the highest player and coach turnover in the league, so for us it simply isn't going to be a quick fix.

[TA30]

Classic French away game - huge pack and backline, different interpretations at the breakdown and questionable officiating - it has always been this way.
The plan to keep the game tight and kick for territory and hope the fitness gives results in the final quarter was the right one. Borthwick is following the Saracens blueprint.
Ford sadly in our biggest game of the season had a game to forget. Too many kicks went dead not just the kick to corner but that was the pivotal moment in the game as we had a lot of momentum.
Inability to force turnovers was also an issue on the night. Reffell particularly will learn from it.
Really proud of the fight the forwards showed - Youngs, lavinini & hanro were standouts in leading from the front but all contributed massively. We were winning collisions in the second half and in the prem where packs are smaller we will have a pack others are wary of next season. Our heads did not drop, last yr that would have been a 40-0drubbing.
Backline remains a huge work on and relieved that we won't be facing radradra in the final - their key strength is our weakness. It will come though, it's a harder fix.

[DeadlyDunc]

I thought the game was two teams struggling to find consistency on what was a terrible surface.
Leicester had some great attacking positions but the line was very predictable most often with only one passing option.
You would hope that some variety (of depth and angles) might come in time but it's not rocket science, pro players should know this stuff in front of them heads up, but clearly not.
Leicester weren't that far off Toulon but the coaches do have a lot of work to do.

I thought first half we just got our execution wrong, Ford and YBY ‘s kicking in particular was just what coaches would call inaccurate but I’d call awful and we coughed up territory, possession and attacking positions.

That coupled with poor handling meant we never got any real momentum til Nadolos try.

Second half and as it went on (notwithstanding Fords error in kicking to the corner) I actually thought we put some decent phase play together and put Toulon under pressure.

On another day a few key decisions would have gone our way and last 10mins, we’d have been within a score and they’d have been under pressure which would have been a different game.

They didn’t go our way, we weren’t within a score and they weren’t under score board pressure so it’s a case of we weren’t good enough, particularly 1st half

I can't put a finger on one thing.
It's just a team struggling to find it's way and has been for ages given mass upheaval.
They had chances but the indecision was there, that's a side low on consistency and confidence.

Agreed

There are reasons to be positive in some of our play at times, at other times it’s hellishly average at best

[simoscribbler]

Quite a few positives - and not just Nadolo. Set piece looking stronger, and pack starting to compete around the park. They look good enough to keep us out of the relegation dogfight next season, but maybe not much more tha that - although we do have very handy reinforcements coming. A couple of the youngsters really do look like Prem starters already too, with a couple more close.

But we do seem to fade badly in the last quarter - so plenty of fitness work still needed - because our first target must surely be to make sure that we are, once again, a forward force to be reckoned with. I do think that the journey has started - albeit with the proverbial smallest step.

And who knows what's going to happen to the pro game anyhow - arguably a semi pro future would play to many of our strengths, as it did at the dawn of professionalism.

[TheTigerKing]

The fact we can even slightly blame the officials for a European semi final loss shows that we are getting better.

It's far from perfect but we are competing now, there is a unity and we have some signs of real class that should become more and more frequent as the cohesion and confidence grows.

Throw in the last few signings who haven't arrived and this is positive.

For the record, we deserved to lose as they were a better side. But it was much, much closer if officiated correctly and fairly.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Oh definitely some big positives. By in large the pack competed well against a massive set of Toulon forwards, whilst missing Taufua, Brink, Wiese and possibly Montoya. Liebenberg was immense again, our best forward since the season recommenced.

Nadolo and Murimurivalu are both big guys and showed some great offloads, something hopefully we’ll see much more of next season. Potter also is a rough diamond but has massive potential. Scott too is a great 12, hopefully we’ll add another 13 to partner him next season on top of Moroni.

[Dangerous4]

We were just not good enough, against a Toulon team who looked pretty average, Our cohesion was non existant and there were too many sloppy errors.

I feel the basics of the game need to be learned all over again. Not good news. Some players however did play well as individuals.

[wellstiger]

We are better than that.

SB lessons to learn
!) who is the 1st XV
2) individual performances need to improve
3)If you are serious about competition and earning the Jersey then some need to be dropped to keep forward momentum.

[sapajo]

Its incomprehensible why some of our so called professional and international players put on a Tigers jersey and instantly become devoid of basic rugby skills and perform poorly.

For me this is something I cannot fathom as the strength of our match day squad on paper promises so much but fails to put it out on the pitch.

This is a pattern that has been repeated for many seasons and I live in hope that SB and his coaches shall finally end once and for all.

[kk20gb30]

Not going to make excuses - nor apportion blame.We have a long way to go to be truly competitive - we were not playing a great Toulon side.A massive issue for me remains the (seeminglly) incessant use of the kick for territory. Should we continue this ploy then we have to be a much more effective in terms of execution, presently all we are doing is handing possession to the opposition who gratefully accept the continual gifts and rack up point after point. Suicidal.

[Grimlish]

Captaincy, confidence and cohesion still missing imo.

Where was work on the ref that Parisse put in? Where was the request to TMO the two tries that could/should have been chalked off?

I see individuals trying hard, the beginnings of a plan, and despite the falling off of tackles yesterday some heart in defence (Lavanini, Reffell, Liebenberg). But the lack of cohesion was clear. The short 'pre-season' must be used to address this or we have no hope of regaining the confidence which will mean we dont make daft decisions like the George's mad failed kick to the corner. In days of old we would have happily taken the points and come back for more confident they would come.

[Scott1]

Not taking the points is ridiculous,99/100 you get the ball straight back after. The Reds did it v the Brumbies. Iirc they were 5 points behind and had a gimme in front of the posts and went to the corner and lost the line out,take the points!

[RagingBull]

Very poor game, no excuses deserved to lose.
Did we have moments when we might have gotten back in yes. But the difference between a off form team and on form team is those moments.

Ford had a awful game, but considering he's been pretty the players of the game for nearly every game he's played with us so far I'm not going to hold it against him. That being said some of the comments about him is pretty funny and interesting, kind of get the feeling some supporters have been dying for him to have a shocker.

Was the officials bad. Yes
But does that happen in most European games for us? Usually yes.
I sometimes wonder if we don't look at how referees ref in Europe.

Forwards
I'm really not sold on Wells as a 6 a good lock yes. Back row just seems lacking in carrying with him here.
But Brink, Wiese or Taufua need to be playing in the back row instead of him once they are here/fit.

Backs
9/10 I would like to see White get more chances in the first team next season same with Henry, I feel both players have shown enough that if Youngs and Ford have a off day that the coaches should be confident to bring them on.
12 Scott is fine for me. Does the job well.
13 Could really do with looking into the depth.

• Kelly is promising but at 18/19 just isn't ready yet for it.

• Moroni is top class but feel a player between him and Porter is needed.

• Taute might be better at 12 but we are too venerable to getting 2/3 on 1's for the wingers due to players getting around him.

• Wouldn't mind seeing Murimurivalu at 13 if Steward is fit too play this week. Feel that he might get more chances get a offload to a winger.

Back 3 Honestly happy with how it's looking. Potter like Porter seems a very clever signing. Nadolo is doing what we hoped. Murimurivalu was a bit rusty in defence but against can see what he can bring.

The rugby paper said 10, 1, 3, 13, 11 being looked at
We signed Bonilla
Those 4 positions are positions I would agree with needing to sign.

[Dangerous4]

Can’t believe people are still clinging to the officiating excuses! Time to wake up and smell the coffee for Gods sake!

Read a law book mate

Forget the law book excuses, Scott is right.