Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Robespierre
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:36 am
Location: Haute-Garonne

Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Robespierre » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:09 am

I've copied and pasted Brian Moores's article in this morning's Telegraph that makes interesting reading.

To me it seems sad that people tend to enjoy the misfortunes of prominent clubs - look at Saracens, although the reasons for their "misfortunes" are somewhat different. At Tigers, the board were blind to the need to adapt to the changing world of Premership rugby and are now paying the price. As Moore writes in the last line of the article, "the club needs to flourish for the greater good of English rugby." I'll drink to that!


Leicester Tigers need to rediscover their roar - for the good of English rugby
Many enjoy revelling in the Midlands club's demise, but former players and coaches permeate throughout domestic rugby


BRIAN MOORE
14 September 2020 • 7:00am

Last week I chatted to several former England and British and Irish Lions players at the Harlequins v Bath game and the subject of Leicester Tigers came up. One former colleague openly said that he could not help feeling a good deal of schadenfreude at their plight, a view which nobody else made any great attempt to quell.

I chipped in my bit, but then said that, on reflection, I did not take all that much joy, even though I had played much of my rugby just down the road at Nottingham.

This set me thinking about what lay behind this attitude, as it is one that I have seen mirrored elsewhere, including widely on social media.

You cannot say Tigers’ success has been achieved with the aid of a rich benefactor, nor have Leicester’s squads ever been packed with foreign players.

My conclusion is that it is caused by the envy at the way in which Leicester and their players have come to dominate so many facets of rugby.

On the pitch they can list 10 English league titles: eight domestic cups and two European Cups. They provided seven players to England’s 2003 Rugby World Cup winning squad and 21 players to England’s three other World Cup final squads. Fifteen Tigers have been international captains and 11 have been British and Irish Lions. Their home ground of Welford Road has a capacity of almost 26,000, and they have a huge number of annual season-ticket holders.

If you look at the coaching posts now and previously held by former Tigers, they range from the Lions, to England and throughout European club rugby.

As merely one example, Dean Richards has had successful coaching stints at three different clubs. When you look at rugby’s media, former Leicester players broadcast for the BBC, ITV, BT Sport and write for The Times and The Telegraph, and so it goes on. At the RFU, and in the Premiership, former Tigers have held the highest offices.

Dean Richards, coaching Leicester, standing alongside players George Chuter and Martin Johnson
Dean Richards' (R) first coaching role was with Leicester Tigers, the club for whom he made his name as a player CREDIT: ACTION IMAGES
When this is set out in full, you see that former Tigers permeate domestic rugby’s corridors of influence in a manner approaching how Old Etonians dominate British politics. That is bound to cause resentment, deserved or not.

Somewhere down the line the Tigers appear to have lost that local club feel that was a huge strength when it came to assimilating outside players and founding loyalty to the Leicester cause. I remember Richards telling me about a board meeting at which concern was expressed about too many outside players being picked in the Leicester squad.

When Richards expressed his surprise at this comment and pointed out that most players were England-qualified, the author of the comment said he meant players from outside Leicestershire. When people such as Sir Digby Jones (now Baron Jones of Birmingham) became involved at a high level, one could see a change in focus at the club.

An offer to share the King Power Stadium from Leicester City FC was turned down which, in hindsight would have benefited Tigers enormously by halving their stadium costs and leaving Welford Road as a valuable property asset.

The Foxes no longer need the rugby club, given their recent successes and the extraordinary amounts of money now available to Premier League clubs through mega-broadcasting deals. No longer are the Tigers the premier sporting club in the town, with the knock-on effects on local sponsorship and support. All this might not have been appreciated by the Tigers’ recently appointed coach, Steve Borthwick, but he would do well to bear it in mind, as it is against this background that he works, not just today’s Premiership.

It will not be enough for him to make the side competitive. Leicester fans require a return to something like their previous glories, and former players in every aspect of rugby will have their say.

Steve Borthwick is trying to restore Leicester to their glory days
A solitary try in a narrow win over a lacklustre Northampton side, who have lost six out of seven of their games since the resumption, provides some estimation of the depth of the malaise with which Borthwick has to contend.

When one looks at the strides forward that other Premiership sides are making it is difficult to see the Tigers being title challengers in the near future. The rebuilding job that Borthwick must undertake should not be underestimated. Players such Tom and Ben Youngs and Dan Cole are nearing the end of illustrious careers and these are players with long-time links to the club. Much will depend on how many of the club’s development squad, who are almost all England-qualified, come through into the first XV.

If enough of them prove good enough, then the Tigers can regain their focus, and that should please not just Leicester fans.

A club with their history, who have provided so much to the national and wider rugby causes, needs to flourish for the greater good of English rugby.
Semper in excreta

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7114
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by jgriffin » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:34 am

Interesting and thoughtful article. The reference to Digby Jones, possibly one of the most useless people to have on the Board!
Many decry the 'former Tigers' bias at the club, yet Moore sees that dynastic element as having served England well.
Thanks for posting it!
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5792
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by JP14 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:37 am

I have always thought Moore a straight-talking and impeccable pundit in both rugby and general life. A good article.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Crofty
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:07 pm
Location: The bagging area (unexpectedly)

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Crofty » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:32 am

As ever, Brian Moore telling it exactly as it is...
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

johnthegriff
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by johnthegriff » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:01 am

There are a few discrepancies in Brian Moore's article. Tigers moving in with City came at a time that City were in effect bankrupt, they did not own their ground but did have the right to buy at a reduced rate, my information at the time was that Tigers would have had to lend City the money to purchase the stadium, and that may have been a problem with Banks and other creditors just waiting for money to appear in City's accounts so they could reduce the amount owing. Welford Road was not an asset easy to sell as the terms of purchase by us included a clause that the stadium remain a sporting venue for a minimum of a set number of years, not sure who would have been a likely buyer.
Moore is right about the value of Tigers to rugby, I am certain he is correct that we lost a certain amount of team spirit when players were recruited from far a field coming only for the duration of a short term contract playing for an employer not a club they identified as theirs. That unfortunately was the price of professionalism. Hopefully we have embarked on the road back with a supply of players from our successful Academy boosted by young signings who we can develop as our players with a smattering of experienced international players to boost our quality and competitiveness.

Noggs
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:41 am
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Noggs » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:20 am

I've always had a lot of time for Moore who does tell it like it is and is always happy to say he was wrong when commenting on games, unlike some Sky commentators.

He has had an interesting life and for those inclined I would recommend this two autobiographies; 'Thought of Chairman Moore' and 'Beware of the Dog'. The second book in particular looks at some dark events in his early years that made him the man he is.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3122
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by ourla » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:30 pm

I'm not sure I agree we need to flourish for the sake of English rugby.

Chiefs are flying the flag pretty well, Bath seem to be on the up and have a new ground coming on stream in a year or two. Wasps have turned themselves around and looking good. Then there is Bristol. The strength in depth of Clubs looks better than ever.

I do agree Borthwick has a big job on his hands. When I look at the teams in the Champions Cup QF's I think how the hell are we ever going to be competing with them again. But that is being a little negative and you have to trot before you can run. And we have to show some faith and patience.
You're either in or you're out

MCC1964
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:29 pm
Location: East Midlands

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by MCC1964 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:19 pm

For me it's a bit like test match cricket. Much as I am an England supporter I feel that the game needs a consistently strong and dominant West Indies side. It may be harking back to days of old, but the game overall would be better and more enjoyable for it. We've seen the odd glimpse of it recently, but whether they will ever be the dominant force they once were......

ads
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 609
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by ads » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:45 pm

I'm not sure I agree we need to flourish for the sake of English rugby.

Chiefs are flying the flag pretty well, Bath seem to be on the up and have a new ground coming on stream in a year or two. Wasps have turned themselves around and looking good. Then there is Bristol. The strength in depth of Clubs looks better than ever.
Yes, but none of those are going to fill Twickenham on those travelling home games. That's why they always play us!

Robespierre
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:36 am
Location: Haute-Garonne

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Robespierre » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:23 pm

MCC1964 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:19 pm
For me it's a bit like test match cricket. Much as I am an England supporter I feel that the game needs a consistently strong and dominant West Indies side. It may be harking back to days of old, but the game overall would be better and more enjoyable for it. We've seen the odd glimpse of it recently, but whether they will ever be the dominant force they once were......
Good analogy!
Semper in excreta

JP14
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5792
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:37 am
Location: Neverland

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by JP14 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:15 pm

It's like how I felt the international game really suffered when Springboks had their poor run from 2016-2018. International rugby needs a strong Springboks side for the benefit of the code.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Dangerous4
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks.

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Dangerous4 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:41 pm

Yes, a good summary of our situation, past and present.

Cardiff Tig
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Cardiff Tig » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:48 pm

JP14 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:15 pm
It's like how I felt the international game really suffered when Springboks had their poor run from 2016-2018. International rugby needs a strong Springboks side for the benefit of the code.
Totally agree. I'd same the same about having a strong French team as well. Completely changes the dynamic of the Six Nations.

Robespierre
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:36 am
Location: Haute-Garonne

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Robespierre » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:58 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:48 pm

Totale agree. I'd same the same about having a strong French team as well. Completely changes the dynamic of the Six Nations.
I think you’ll find that Raphaël Ibañez and Fabien Galthié are bringing the French XV back to where we’d like them to be and they could be a force to be reckoned with come the 6N.
Semper in excreta

Cardiff Tig
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1163
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Re: Brian Moore - Telegraph 14 Sep 2020

Post by Cardiff Tig » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:25 pm

They do seem to have got their act together finally. I don't think they've been a decent side since 2011, and even then it was down to a few players dragging the team with them. It's good to see them coming back to where they should be.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chobbsy and 2 guests