A new defence coach?

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longlivethecrumbie
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:34 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:16 pm
longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm
BigDan50 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:04 am
As Sapayo has stated Mike Ford and Murphy seem to be unsackable, if the Board sack Ford I have no doubt that George will throw his toys out of the park as he did at Bath and request a transfer or the termination of his contract. He and the Young brothers have to much influence within the club and the ear of certain board members who who are weak and listen and act on their views.
As for Murphy the decline in Tigers we are witnessing began when he was given a coaching role at the club, why we still employ him in any capacity in any coaching role is beyond me and beyond belief, any other club would have got rid of him years ago, he is probably the worst coach/director of rugby we have ever employed, time for both of them to go for the sake of the club.
Who would your scapegoats be then if Geordan and Ford were let go?

Murphy is no longer a coach and is DoR. Borthwick selects the side, 100%. Geordan was out of his depth as head coach, I believe he intimated as much in some interviews, but as DoR he's looking more at the overall structure and pathway from Academy to First 15. Geordan and Borthwick are responsible for the retention of the players who have stayed while they are also responsible for the new arrivals, along with McGinty.

The reality is the decline didn't begin on Geordan's watch and to lay the pathway to the start of our decline to the point where Geordan entered the coaches room is laughable. The reality is that a number of people have made a lot of pretty bad decisions in terms of recruitment and senior coaching appointments over a number of years. These decisions will not be resolved overnight and will need a number of years of hard work and patience to resolve the issues, arrest the decline and see us climb the table. More wholesale change will not be helpful - especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Far too sensible to the GM haters, similar or identical to the Cohen haters etc. They used to be Cockers haters I suppose; I was the only MOC denigrator for some years, but this lot seem to blame everyone, with a new target every season. Pish, say I :smt044
Thankfully, my two kids won't remember this torrid era and I'm hoping they will grow up watching a competitive side.

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by sapajo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:43 pm

Its a shame that some folks refer to any criticisms of GM or MF or SB or et el as haters? I for one do not hate any of them or indeed dislike them, indeed, I respect them as much as anyone else and just because you criticise anyone it does not mean that you must hate them. Thank you
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trendylfj
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by trendylfj » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:49 pm

From my POV, the error was asking Mike to be an attack coach when clearly his strengths are in defence. I don't accept that shipping 54 pts by our youngsters against a nearly full strength in form Wasps = a poor defence coach. If in 2/3 months time our 1st XV do the same, then I will certainly begin to change my opinion. No, it is not the time to move anyone on and that includes GM
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Brutus » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:59 pm

Mike Ford is a proven world-class defence coach, who I would replace him??

He has had precious little time to make an impact on the team, regardless of the team selection carousel that has been forced on the club by the congested schedule.

I felt a Little bit bit sick after watching the game yesterday but having slept on it these remaining premiership games matter very little but for pride - having said that I sincerely hope the Saints game is being targeted to try and recover a bit of that.

The rest of the season is going to uncomfortable to watch but those players who are going to have long term futures at the club will be the ones who gain resilience from being part of the club in this dark period.

JP14
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by JP14 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:18 pm

longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:34 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:16 pm
longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm


Who would your scapegoats be then if Geordan and Ford were let go?

Murphy is no longer a coach and is DoR. Borthwick selects the side, 100%. Geordan was out of his depth as head coach, I believe he intimated as much in some interviews, but as DoR he's looking more at the overall structure and pathway from Academy to First 15. Geordan and Borthwick are responsible for the retention of the players who have stayed while they are also responsible for the new arrivals, along with McGinty.

The reality is the decline didn't begin on Geordan's watch and to lay the pathway to the start of our decline to the point where Geordan entered the coaches room is laughable. The reality is that a number of people have made a lot of pretty bad decisions in terms of recruitment and senior coaching appointments over a number of years. These decisions will not be resolved overnight and will need a number of years of hard work and patience to resolve the issues, arrest the decline and see us climb the table. More wholesale change will not be helpful - especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Far too sensible to the GM haters, similar or identical to the Cohen haters etc. They used to be Cockers haters I suppose; I was the only MOC denigrator for some years, but this lot seem to blame everyone, with a new target every season. Pish, say I :smt044
Thankfully, my two kids won't remember this torrid era and I'm hoping they will grow up watching a competitive side.
Hopefully by the time I have kids we will be out of it!
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by JP14 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:21 pm

I was just putting the question out there.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

sam16111986
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by sam16111986 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 pm

trendylfj wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:49 pm
From my POV, the error was asking Mike to be an attack coach when clearly his strengths are in defence. I don't accept that shipping 54 pts by our youngsters against a nearly full strength in form Wasps = a poor defence coach. If in 2/3 months time our 1st XV do the same, then I will certainly begin to change my opinion. No, it is not the time to move anyone on and that includes GM
I think the idea behind Ford as attack coach was that he took a lot of credit for how Bath played in attack when he was head coach there and if he could get us playing the same type of rugby with Ford at 10 we'd go well. Didn't work.

You can run all the defensive drills you like. If players continue to give away unnecessary penalties then your defence will eventually succumb to the pressure.

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Noggs » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:06 pm

Please judge based on the facts.

Ford has a magnificent coaching record and given the right player and a little time I believe he will improve Tigers defence beyond recognition.

Smurf did a great job coaching the youngsters and stepped up into the head coach role under difficult circumstances. He was man enough to recognise his own weaknesses and I feel sure he had a lot to do with getting SB to take the role of head coach allowing himself to move to a more general management role.

Let anyone who claims they are rubbish and should go present a similar success story.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Rutlandtiger » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:55 pm

What the club needs now is stability in the coaching and leadership team, clear vision of where we want to be and people given freedom, resources and support to implement. There should not be anymore coaching team churn for several seasons at least - short term don't expect a return to the glory's of old.
Rugby is getting too similar to soccer at the moment in many ways, let's not go there, please.

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by strawclearer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:02 pm

longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm
Murphy is no longer a coach and is DoR. Borthwick selects the side, 100%. Geordan was out of his depth as head coach, I believe he intimated as much in some interviews, but as DoR he's looking more at the overall structure and pathway from Academy to First 15. Geordan and Borthwick are responsible for the retention of the players who have stayed while they are also responsible for the new arrivals, along with McGinty.

The reality is the decline didn't begin on Geordan's watch and to lay the pathway to the start of our decline to the point where Geordan entered the coaches room is laughable. The reality is that a number of people have made a lot of pretty bad decisions in terms of recruitment and senior coaching appointments over a number of years. These decisions will not be resolved overnight and will need a number of years of hard work and patience to resolve the issues, arrest the decline and see us climb the table. More wholesale change will not be helpful - especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Agree with this and a couple of points to make:

I don't believe that Geordan felt 'up to' the Coaching job at any stage. He took on the role for the Club's benefit - not his. The Club owes him a huge debt of gratitude imho.

Borthwick's appointment was driven by Simon Cohen. Borthwick would not have taken the job had Geordan not been made DoR - which SC ensured would happen.

The triumvirate of Murphy, Borthwick and McGinity are key to future success.
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
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jgriffin
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by jgriffin » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:35 pm

sapajo wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:43 pm
Its a shame that some folks refer to any criticisms of GM or MF or SB or et el as haters? I for one do not hate any of them or indeed dislike them, indeed, I respect them as much as anyone else and just because you criticise anyone it does not mean that you must hate them. Thank you
I'm simply referring to the fixed number of posters who never cease from 'sack XXXX'.
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Tiglon
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Tiglon » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:22 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:02 pm
longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm
Murphy is no longer a coach and is DoR. Borthwick selects the side, 100%. Geordan was out of his depth as head coach, I believe he intimated as much in some interviews, but as DoR he's looking more at the overall structure and pathway from Academy to First 15. Geordan and Borthwick are responsible for the retention of the players who have stayed while they are also responsible for the new arrivals, along with McGinty.

The reality is the decline didn't begin on Geordan's watch and to lay the pathway to the start of our decline to the point where Geordan entered the coaches room is laughable. The reality is that a number of people have made a lot of pretty bad decisions in terms of recruitment and senior coaching appointments over a number of years. These decisions will not be resolved overnight and will need a number of years of hard work and patience to resolve the issues, arrest the decline and see us climb the table. More wholesale change will not be helpful - especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Agree with this and a couple of points to make:

I don't believe that Geordan felt 'up to' the Coaching job at any stage. He took on the role for the Club's benefit - not his. The Club owes him a huge debt of gratitude imho.

Borthwick's appointment was driven by Simon Cohen. Borthwick would not have taken the job had Geordan not been made DoR - which SC ensured would happen.

The triumvirate of Murphy, Borthwick and McGinity are key to future success.
Are you saying that Borthwick would have turned down the opportunity to be a Head Coach if he couldn't have GM as his DOR? So, what, he would have just walked away from rugby until GM got a DOR role and offered him a job? Be sensible...

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by strawclearer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:36 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:22 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:02 pm
longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm
Murphy is no longer a coach and is DoR. Borthwick selects the side, 100%. Geordan was out of his depth as head coach, I believe he intimated as much in some interviews, but as DoR he's looking more at the overall structure and pathway from Academy to First 15. Geordan and Borthwick are responsible for the retention of the players who have stayed while they are also responsible for the new arrivals, along with McGinty.

The reality is the decline didn't begin on Geordan's watch and to lay the pathway to the start of our decline to the point where Geordan entered the coaches room is laughable. The reality is that a number of people have made a lot of pretty bad decisions in terms of recruitment and senior coaching appointments over a number of years. These decisions will not be resolved overnight and will need a number of years of hard work and patience to resolve the issues, arrest the decline and see us climb the table. More wholesale change will not be helpful - especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Agree with this and a couple of points to make:

I don't believe that Geordan felt 'up to' the Coaching job at any stage. He took on the role for the Club's benefit - not his. The Club owes him a huge debt of gratitude imho.

Borthwick's appointment was driven by Simon Cohen. Borthwick would not have taken the job had Geordan not been made DoR - which SC ensured would happen.

The triumvirate of Murphy, Borthwick and McGinity are key to future success.
Are you saying that Borthwick would have turned down the opportunity to be a Head Coach if he couldn't have GM as his DOR? So, what, he would have just walked away from rugby until GM got a DOR role and offered him a job? Be sensible...
Of course I'm not saying that (and telling me to "be sensible" isn't the politest thing I've heard today). I'm simply saying that Borthwick would not have taken the Tigers HC job had GM not been the Tigers DoR.
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Stay Home>Protect The NHS>Save Lives

longlivethecrumbie
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:23 am

strawclearer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:36 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:22 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:02 pm


Agree with this and a couple of points to make:

I don't believe that Geordan felt 'up to' the Coaching job at any stage. He took on the role for the Club's benefit - not his. The Club owes him a huge debt of gratitude imho.

Borthwick's appointment was driven by Simon Cohen. Borthwick would not have taken the job had Geordan not been made DoR - which SC ensured would happen.

The triumvirate of Murphy, Borthwick and McGinity are key to future success.
Are you saying that Borthwick would have turned down the opportunity to be a Head Coach if he couldn't have GM as his DOR? So, what, he would have just walked away from rugby until GM got a DOR role and offered him a job? Be sensible...
Of course I'm not saying that (and telling me to "be sensible" isn't the politest thing I've heard today). I'm simply saying that Borthwick would not have taken the Tigers HC job had GM not been the Tigers DoR.
My sources also confirmed the same

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by wellstiger » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:34 am

The triumvirate of Murphy, Borthwick and McGinity are key to future success.

Triumvirates worked for the Romans until the backstabbing ( quite literally ) started.
It appears some posters have already got the Knives out.

I am willing to keep mine sheathed until we are half way through a domestic season being fought for something meaningful.
Unlike the termination of this Prem season.

Et tu Brutus.

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