A new defence coach?

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JP14
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A new defence coach?

Post by JP14 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:12 pm

Am I jumping the gun a little bit here or should we look at getting a new defence coach? One on one hits (especially in the forwards) seem to be pretty good but in the outside channels we seem to be all over the place. We’re conceding far too many tries... fair enough there are tries which are the result of errors or indiscipline but I’m beginning to feel nervous we won’t be able to build if we can’t keep the opposition from conceding 40 + points a game.

Yeah okay it’s Mike Ford but I can’t see George being that shallow to kick off and leave if we release his dad from his contract, especially after resigning twice this season.
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jgriffin
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by jgriffin » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:24 pm

JP14 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:12 pm
Am I jumping the gun a little bit here or should we look at getting a new defence coach? One on one hits (especially in the forwards) seem to be pretty good but in the outside channels we seem to be all over the place. We’re conceding far too many tries... fair enough there are tries which are the result of errors or indiscipline but I’m beginning to feel nervous we won’t be able to build if we can’t keep the opposition from conceding 40 + points a game.

Yeah okay it’s Mike Ford but I can’t see George being that shallow to kick off and leave if we release his dad from his contract, especially after resigning twice this season.
That's the one change I am expecting fairly soon.
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sapajo
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by sapajo » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:36 pm

Mike Ford just like Murphy is unsackable and they both know it. Neither are in their respective employment based upon performance, ability or success. So why are they still in post ???
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baz1664
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by baz1664 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:43 pm

Murphy and Mike Ford should walk the plank first, waste of time and money, complete joke and embarrassment!!!!

Truefollower
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Truefollower » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:31 pm

Let's judge when we have all the players here and the systems can be put in place and refined. The current backline is makeshift and new, what do you expect?

ads
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by ads » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:39 am

In a few months we'll have the complete set here. We've been waiting a long time for this, so waiting a little bit longer shouldn't be too hard. Start to judge them half way through the next season. Even Mike Ford was being 'played' out of position until recently.

Scuttle
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Scuttle » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:05 am

Genuine question. Is an unstructured defence a legitimate strategy? The reason I ask is Barbeary, in his post match interview, said that in planning for the game they knew they could run at Tigers unstructured defence. It sounds like they spotted a weakness but I wondered if such a defence is actually a form of defence.
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dunc
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by dunc » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:44 am

Scuttle wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:05 am
Genuine question. Is an unstructured defence a legitimate strategy? The reason I ask is Barbeary, in his post match interview, said that in planning for the game they knew they could run at Tigers unstructured defence. It sounds like they spotted a weakness but I wondered if such a defence is actually a form of defence.
I think it is more something the attacking team creates by breaking the structure of the defence. This could be through line breaks, turnover, kick returns or driving a maul or a scrum. Losing structure is certainly not a desirable outcome for the defending team.

Scuttle
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Scuttle » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:00 am

dunc wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:44 am
Scuttle wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:05 am
Genuine question. Is an unstructured defence a legitimate strategy? The reason I ask is Barbeary, in his post match interview, said that in planning for the game they knew they could run at Tigers unstructured defence. It sounds like they spotted a weakness but I wondered if such a defence is actually a form of defence.
I think it is more something the attacking team creates by breaking the structure of the defence. This could be through line breaks, turnover, kick returns or driving a maul or a scrum. Losing structure is certainly not a desirable outcome for the defending team.
My view too. I just sounds like they knew would lose structure and the gaps would come.
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kk20gb30
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by kk20gb30 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:01 am

Not now.
Certainly not yet.
It is far too early to pass judgement on any of the recently installed coaches performance - judgement should be reserved for a time when matches actually matter and when we get to field a full strength starting line up consistently.
We should also recognise the fact that that there has not been a defensive system or strategy formulated that could hope to withstand the incessant pressures we inflict upon ourselves buy constantly giving away possession - without the ball we will concede points .
Also , rightly or wrongly , professional or unprofessional blood always is and will remain thicker than water.

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by BigDan50 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:04 am

As Sapayo has stated Mike Ford and Murphy seem to be unsackable, if the Board sack Ford I have no doubt that George will throw his toys out of the park as he did at Bath and request a transfer or the termination of his contract. He and the Young brothers have to much influence within the club and the ear of certain board members who who are weak and listen and act on their views.
As for Murphy the decline in Tigers we are witnessing began when he was given a coaching role at the club, why we still employ him in any capacity in any coaching role is beyond me and beyond belief, any other club would have got rid of him years ago, he is probably the worst coach/director of rugby we have ever employed, time for both of them to go for the sake of the club.

Tiglon
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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by Tiglon » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:31 pm

To be fair to Mike Ford, he's had 6(?) matches as defence coach, half of which have been with our youth/2nd/3rd team on the pitch. The defence against Exeter and Irish was pretty good, still with a lot of 1st teamers missing.

I can't see any logic in putting out a bunch of kids against a top 4 side then blaming the defence coach when they ship a load of tries :smt017

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm

BigDan50 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:04 am
As Sapayo has stated Mike Ford and Murphy seem to be unsackable, if the Board sack Ford I have no doubt that George will throw his toys out of the park as he did at Bath and request a transfer or the termination of his contract. He and the Young brothers have to much influence within the club and the ear of certain board members who who are weak and listen and act on their views.
As for Murphy the decline in Tigers we are witnessing began when he was given a coaching role at the club, why we still employ him in any capacity in any coaching role is beyond me and beyond belief, any other club would have got rid of him years ago, he is probably the worst coach/director of rugby we have ever employed, time for both of them to go for the sake of the club.
Who would your scapegoats be then if Geordan and Ford were let go?

Murphy is no longer a coach and is DoR. Borthwick selects the side, 100%. Geordan was out of his depth as head coach, I believe he intimated as much in some interviews, but as DoR he's looking more at the overall structure and pathway from Academy to First 15. Geordan and Borthwick are responsible for the retention of the players who have stayed while they are also responsible for the new arrivals, along with McGinty.

The reality is the decline didn't begin on Geordan's watch and to lay the pathway to the start of our decline to the point where Geordan entered the coaches room is laughable. The reality is that a number of people have made a lot of pretty bad decisions in terms of recruitment and senior coaching appointments over a number of years. These decisions will not be resolved overnight and will need a number of years of hard work and patience to resolve the issues, arrest the decline and see us climb the table. More wholesale change will not be helpful - especially on the defensive side of the ball.

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by wellstiger » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:15 pm

Youth and inexperience against a well drilled team. gaps will happen. Doesn't matter how much effort you put in in training.
A settled team with experience and a spattering of youth can make it look easy.

SB worked with MF. the defence had been quite good. The defensive line pushes up as one and has worked for each other.
There has been improvement.Forget the Warps game. They have been doing it to stronger sides than the one we fielded. No honours knowing you've beaten an under powered Tiger.

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Re: A new defence coach?

Post by jgriffin » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:16 pm

longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:12 pm
BigDan50 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:04 am
As Sapayo has stated Mike Ford and Murphy seem to be unsackable, if the Board sack Ford I have no doubt that George will throw his toys out of the park as he did at Bath and request a transfer or the termination of his contract. He and the Young brothers have to much influence within the club and the ear of certain board members who who are weak and listen and act on their views.
As for Murphy the decline in Tigers we are witnessing began when he was given a coaching role at the club, why we still employ him in any capacity in any coaching role is beyond me and beyond belief, any other club would have got rid of him years ago, he is probably the worst coach/director of rugby we have ever employed, time for both of them to go for the sake of the club.
Who would your scapegoats be then if Geordan and Ford were let go?

Murphy is no longer a coach and is DoR. Borthwick selects the side, 100%. Geordan was out of his depth as head coach, I believe he intimated as much in some interviews, but as DoR he's looking more at the overall structure and pathway from Academy to First 15. Geordan and Borthwick are responsible for the retention of the players who have stayed while they are also responsible for the new arrivals, along with McGinty.

The reality is the decline didn't begin on Geordan's watch and to lay the pathway to the start of our decline to the point where Geordan entered the coaches room is laughable. The reality is that a number of people have made a lot of pretty bad decisions in terms of recruitment and senior coaching appointments over a number of years. These decisions will not be resolved overnight and will need a number of years of hard work and patience to resolve the issues, arrest the decline and see us climb the table. More wholesale change will not be helpful - especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Far too sensible to the GM haters, similar or identical to the Cohen haters etc. They used to be Cockers haters I suppose; I was the only MOC denigrator for some years, but this lot seem to blame everyone, with a new target every season. Pish, say I :smt044
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

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