Midweek Game - Wed 09 Sep Away to Wasps

[BFG]

I thought Leicester had a good start in this game but as the game broke up the rigid selections were exposed.
For me yesterday's selection was a mistake and especially against a side like Wasps.
Not a genuine open side amongst the entire 23 wasn't a good plan in my opinion.
A lack of intensity and general mobility was exposed later on and the backs were also exposed but we're always going to be given how rampant Wasps were.
I thought some of the players were hung out to dry a bit.

Very true but who is available?

I wouldn't know, either of Reffell, Tuafua or Wallace come to mind but there may be other better combinations.
The game is always going to open up more as it goes on and the side out needed more time to set as the match went on, combined with Wasps increasing the tempo and chucking the ball about it didn't go well.

[Tiglon]

I thought Leicester had a good start in this game but as the game broke up the rigid selections were exposed.
For me yesterday's selection was a mistake and especially against a side like Wasps.
Not a genuine open side amongst the entire 23 wasn't a good plan in my opinion.
A lack of intensity and general mobility was exposed later on and the backs were also exposed but we're always going to be given how rampant Wasps were.
I thought some of the players were hung out to dry a bit.

Very true but who is available?

I wouldn't know, either of Reffell, Tuafua or Wallace come to mind but there may be other better combinations.
The game is always going to open up more as it goes on and the side out needed more time to set as the match went on, combined with Wasps increasing the tempo and chucking the ball about it didn't go well.

I thought Wells made a nuisance of himself at the breakdown when he came on, it might have been better to start him ahead of Chessum or Smith, even though he's definitely not a 7 himself. I doubt it would have made too much difference to the score though.

[JP14]

Smith’s future for me is at 6.

[AngusMcCoatup]

Very true but who is available?

I wouldn't know, either of Reffell, Tuafua or Wallace come to mind but there may be other better combinations.
The game is always going to open up more as it goes on and the side out needed more time to set as the match went on, combined with Wasps increasing the tempo and chucking the ball about it didn't go well.

I thought Wells made a nuisance of himself at the breakdown when he came on, it might have been better to start him ahead of Chessum or Smith, even though he's definitely not a 7 himself. I doubt it would have made too much difference to the score though.

At least Wells tries hard but on too late as were several other replacements. No heart from Ben Youngs and I believe the score for Wasps would have doubled if Olowofela had been on the wing, so be positive at least!

[Scott1]

"Team selection is my remit; it will continue to be my remit," Murphy told BBC Radio Leicester.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51190532

Just as I said!

[Jimmy Skitz]

I'd like to see us picking a team with 3 proper back row players in instead of 3 second row players.

On Murphy, he was skills coach at a time where we constantly made an obscene amount of unforced errors, he was acting head coach and I think he lost every game, and his record as head coach should have seen him fired yet somehow he got a promotion.

If he wasn't Geordan Murphy, legendary ex-player and captain he wouldn't be employed.

[Tiglon]

I wouldn't know, either of Reffell, Tuafua or Wallace come to mind but there may be other better combinations.
The game is always going to open up more as it goes on and the side out needed more time to set as the match went on, combined with Wasps increasing the tempo and chucking the ball about it didn't go well.

I thought Wells made a nuisance of himself at the breakdown when he came on, it might have been better to start him ahead of Chessum or Smith, even though he's definitely not a 7 himself. I doubt it would have made too much difference to the score though.

At least Wells tries hard but on too late as were several other replacements. No heart from Ben Youngs and I believe the score for Wasps would have doubled if Olowofela had been on the wing, so be positive at least!

My problem with Ben Youngs yesterday was his apparent attitude on the bench. When the camera showed him he was always having a joke and a laugh. For me, and I know many will disagree, a senior player in that situation should still have a role to play and not just be messing around while he's waiting to go onto the pitch. He should have been coaching and preparing the less experienced on the bench, discussing tactics etc with coaches and/or other senior bench warmers and generally getting ready to lift the intensity when he comes on and making sure the rest of the bench does the same.

Now I know everyone's different, but in an elite environment, in that situation, he had a job to do and he wasn't doing it. That was reflected by his performance when he came on. If he's that relaxed about a record defeat, then I would suggest that perhaps there may be a lack of accountability.

This isn't a dig at Ben Youngs personally, but I think it signifies an issue within the culture of the squad. Too laid back, too at ease with losing. Too amateur. That has been evident in recent seasons when players at the end of a bad loss were all smiles and laughter - it looks like it hasn't gone away yet.

Clive Woodward made a very interesting observation of the England players at press conferences before the NZ semi and the SA final - before NZ they were all focused and intense, before the final Cole and Marler were doing a comedy double act. The performances reflected that.

[westwinds31]

I didn’t see why we brought Youngs on to be honest. If it was to steady the ship then that didn’t work did it. Stupid error and the floodgates opened soon after, although you could say it would have happened anyway.

It’s happened like we knew it would. We’re fitter, more physical and the effort is generally good. All we need now is players with a bit of rugby nous. The ability to see what’s happening in front of you and stopping it, basically. Not giving away easy territory or stupid penalties. Making a contribution that affects a situation....breakdown, tackle etc. What you need is a squad that are all on the same page....Tick...we’re all trying to pull together to get Tigers back to where we (think we) belong. Ah, hold on....the squad are relatively new in terms of players, combinations and most importantly the playbook...oh hold on....the coaches are pretty new and haven’t had long to put a plan in place. Surely our players should pick this up quickly...oh....a lot of them have never played or experienced this level of rugby. Even the seasoned internationals are struggling, maybe over compensating for the younger players ? I’ve often wondered why Ben Youngs is on fire for England but all fingers and thumbs for Tigers......it’s the collective. Tigers aren’t confident enough for everything to click. Guess what, it’s not going to happen against Saints....Castres or Quins. There....I’ve said it. Next season.....hmmmm...players away with Internationals...disruption...no, it’s not going to be pretty then either. It will be better but don’t expect us to be pushing for Top 6. Effort only gets you so far. To build a culture where everyone is on the same page, throughout the club takes a few years. Many have tried....only Saracens and maybe now Exeter have achieved it. There’s the size of the task right there. After last night there’s only one way to go....up. Stick with it.

[trendylfj]

said it before and will say it again and again (as the song goes) team selection should not be GM's remit - Steve has to be the boss and pick the team which can put into operation what he is training them for.

[ABClub]

said it before and will say it again and again (as the song goes) team selection should not be GM's remit - Steve has to be the boss and pick the team which can put into operation what he is training them for.

Wasn't it confirmed in an LTTV interview that Borthwick is in charge of selection now?

Admittedly if I'm right there the last few weeks haven't been the greatest of starts...

[sam16111986]

Disagree with some of that.
Kerr was playing awful
Wells been a improvement on chessum (Who granted is even more out of position)

Kerr was having a mare at the lineout but his mobility was helping cover for the fact we had three locks on against a far more mobile side. Clare has improved the set piece but isn't mobile enough to support the backline which is being overrun.

I'd be tempted to drop a few players to make a point. Ben Youngs who I normally defend on here would be at the top of the list. Coming on to concede a moronic penalty is not leading by example.

Barbeary was lucky that his dominant pack caused him to create a try with a one handed off load while being tackled by two opponents.

Oh the lad looks like an international in the making but having front foot ball and space to show off your considerable talents helps. We know Henry is great ball in hand but he can't show in the second half because we haven't had the ball and the forwards give away penalties every few minutes to ensure we won't.

If anyone from the club claims there are positives to take from this gongshow they need sacking...

First half from the young lads was good. Lots of heart and took the game to Wasps. Second half nothing good.

You seem to have a Kerr agenda.

I like Kerr as a player he brings a lot of mobility to what is a pretty big pack. Was hoping he'd get a chance to show what he could do. Disappointed he didn't take it, his lineout has previously been good but wasn't close to being up to standard Vs Wasps.

We tend to play a pretty big tight five normally with a six that could also play lock. If you can have a hooker that can cover a lot of ground in defence it's beneficial. If he has the pace to keep up with line breaks even better. With our normal pack selections we have a lot of big blokes to hit hard in the tight. I was hoping he'd give us more of an edge than he did though.

[Redstripeman]

Personally I'm laughing at the moaners.
These are dead games! SB has been given a golden opportunity to find out about his players and his coaches (and I expect a small turnover in the next few months). If by next Easter we see no improvement, then moan. I really think none on here have been in a team trying to rebuild, even allowing for the three or four fulltime moaners. I do spend less and less time reading the dross - I mean, still going on about the hotel?? - and more paying attention to the 3 or 4 forum users who appear to have knowledge.

Well said it was always going to be at least a 2 year fix rather than overnight miracles. Big picture.. if we are mid table or higher come Easter who will even remember these matches?

Exactly, but the « quick fix merchants » will always insist on making their doom and gloom comments. Ok, so the results are disappointing but let’s show a modicum of patience and wait until next season when we won’t have to play so many games in so little time. There should then be a more or less settled first team squad with a sprinkling of the younger players who have come through this tough period with their reputations enhanced.

...I find it hard to see how Borthwick and company can get any idea of the merits of the young second XV he puts out!!!
How can they be learning and develop in an environment where they are constantly under pressure and the people around them are falling down.
It is quite amazing that we compare Ford or Ben youngs in respect of their England performances and conclude that the support they received (getting good ball on the front foot) is accepted as them being on top of their game and deride their performances for Tigers. Same players same talent but brought down by the players around them
and we can't see that putting all the young inexperience players together does not give them a chance to shine as the supporting cast, can not, support!
It is a policy I suppose that is now in play and unlikely to be reversed by the staff selecting the teams, there will be players having sleepless nights with these performances, it is not a fair reflection of their talents.

[Tiglon]

When players are under pressure - that's when you learn the most about them.

Barbeary was brilliant against us, but did the Wasps coaches learn anything new about him?

I think we've learnt a lot about which youngsters might make it and which almost certainly won't.

[jgriffin]

When players are under pressure - that's when you learn the most about them.

Barbeary was brilliant against us, but did the Wasps coaches learn anything new about him?

I think we've learnt a lot about which youngsters might make it and which almost certainly won't.

Yep, in matches that mean nothing essentially, a sifting that might otherwise have taken a couple of seasons. We have confirmed Henry as a good 10 and now know we have to find another. Potter and Williams look promising, Porter- jury out. Henderson, Martin, Lewis all good, Kerr jury out etc etc.
And yes, LTTV confirmed a couple of times SB has final say on selection, out of a committee of 5 (GM, JM, AW and one other I can't remember if Devel Manager).

[Dangerous4]

I'd like to see us picking a team with 3 proper back row players in instead of 3 second row players.

On Murphy, he was skills coach at a time where we constantly made an obscene amount of unforced errors, he was acting head coach and I think he lost every game, and his record as head coach should have seen him fired yet somehow he got a promotion.

If he wasn't Geordan Murphy, legendary ex-player and captain he wouldn't be employed.

Well said. That sums up my feelings exactly.