Uncontested scrums

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mol2
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Uncontested scrums

Post by mol2 »

Just watching the Bath v Wasps game- missed most of it but Wasps seemed to have a full 15 on the pitch in spite of not having a front row capable of contesting the scrums.

I thought the laws prevented a replacement coming on for an injured front row unless the player was capable of scrummaging in the front row. Has that changed? Are we going to see Wasps revert to days of old where they would engineer uncontested scrums once they were coming off second best in the scrums.

As an ex tight head I still can’t figure out why their bench tight head couldn’t contest the scums, particularly as their bench tight head used to play hooker. Hooking may not be effective but that’s irrelevant given the feeds these days. A tight head at hooker is more of an issue at line out or in the loose?
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by Tigerbeat »

But both their hookers were hurt and the match went to uncontested scrums.
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FrontRowUnionMember
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by FrontRowUnionMember »

I think the fact Oghre went off due to head injury was the key factor. Barnes was quite clear on that whilst the decision was ongoing.
mol2
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by mol2 »

In those circumstances I thought you couldn’t bring on a replacement if they couldn’t contest?

(As a disincentive to engineer uncontested scrums when your pack is coming off second best? Which was a regular circumstance when our pack was munching them)

Thanks for the clarification re head injury.
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by FrontRowUnionMember »

I believe any other injuries, yes you have to drop a player, but for head injuries it’s different. They originally said Tom West was the backup hooker and they would remain contested scrums, but when Barnes asked him just as the change was due to be made (it was at a scrum), West said he wasn’t confident as he hadn’t played there for three years. Blackett has been on the news to say Young was the alternate option but he’d already gone off.
fentiger
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by fentiger »

Wasps.... uncontested scrums.... meh!
wellstiger
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by wellstiger »

Pests............Pestish
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by DingDong »

If a player hasn't hooked for 2-3 years and the coach says he IS capable, that Wasps coach needs a word!! Thankfully the player was honest and Barnes brilliantly managed the situation to prevent another unnecessary injury.
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by johnthegriff »

If you play front row then there should be no danger in occupying any of the three positions. Of course you may be better at tight head than loose or vice versa, Hooker in the past was often a small guy who could not possibly prop and a prop might not be able to position himself to strike for the ball if moved to hooker but these days there is no strike, hookers are often simply a prop in the middle who also throws the ball in. Wasps have a long history of their own special cheat with taking the game to uncontested scrums, the rules were changed to countermand the cheat yet he we are again, they have found a way round it. I await the outcry if they do it again.
sam16111986
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by sam16111986 »

johnthegriff wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:13 am If you play front row then there should be no danger in occupying any of the three positions. Of course you may be better at tight head than loose or vice versa, Hooker in the past was often a small guy who could not possibly prop and a prop might not be able to position himself to strike for the ball if moved to hooker but these days there is no strike, hookers are often simply a prop in the middle who also throws the ball in. Wasps have a long history of their own special cheat with taking the game to uncontested scrums, the rules were changed to countermand the cheat yet he we are again, they have found a way round it. I await the outcry if they do it again.
The law interpretation changed a year or so back so that hookers have to strike for the ball. I can't remember the game but a ref has penalised a team since the restart for not striking for the ball at the scrum. The fact you can put the ball in crooked makes this an awful lot easier than it used to be though.
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by FrontRowUnionMember »

Different forces on your body coming from different angles, can make playing in an unfamiliar front row position quite difficult. I played TH for many years with only a few awkward moments, but always struggled massively at LH. Hooker I found slightly easier. But at a higher level I’m sure it’s a lot more technical. You only have to get you’re feet or hips in the wrong position and you can find your neck in a very uncomfortable place.
The coach responsible for the touchline commitment on West’s behalf Dave Bassett, former Tigers Academy & Development Manager.
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by teds »

fentiger wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:57 pm Wasps.... uncontested scrums.... meh!
Although Phil Vickery is usually credited with inventing this form of cheating, I think it reached perfection with Olivier Azam at Gloucester. Capped for France at both both Hooker and Prop, for this match he was suddenly unable to move to Prop keep scrums competitive.

I remember logging onto the Gloucester web site, where his profile listed him as both Hooker and Prop.
The next day the web site just listed him as hooker.

For those too young to remember of who don’t bear grudges for as long, I found an old link about the hoo-hah.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 90413.html
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by FrontRowUnionMember »

I remember Corbisiero also refusing to go to TH after Ayerza had demolished Ma’afu and Denman against Saints. Corbisiero has been capped as a TH for England Saxons.
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by GETHIN EXILE »

the worst example I can remember was tigers v bath at the then walkers stadium in a european game we were driving their pack back at a 5metre scrum and it collapsed 3 or 4 times , the french ref yellow carded a prop so they sent on a replacement prop who promptly collapsed the scrum and was yellow carded. the ref then ordered uncontested scrums, as bath said that they did not have a player capable of playing on that side of the scrum, which obviously negated the power of our scrum and our chances of scoring the try that was coming if we were allowed to drive them back. there was no penalty try given and as this happened in the last few minutes with us 3 points behind bath managed to hang on and win the game. the most blatant failure of a referee to deal with situation.
voice of the crumbie
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Re: Uncontested scrums

Post by voice of the crumbie »

GETHIN EXILE wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:37 pm the worst example I can remember was tigers v bath at the then walkers stadium in a european game we were driving their pack back at a 5metre scrum and it collapsed 3 or 4 times , the french ref yellow carded a prop so they sent on a replacement prop who promptly collapsed the scrum and was yellow carded. the ref then ordered uncontested scrums, as bath said that they did not have a player capable of playing on that side of the scrum, which obviously negated the power of our scrum and our chances of scoring the try that was coming if we were allowed to drive them back. there was no penalty try given and as this happened in the last few minutes with us 3 points behind bath managed to hang on and win the game. the most blatant failure of a referee to deal with situation.
Agreed re the ref's failure to penalise by penalty try for repeated same infringement in the "red zone". I also seem to recall that a certain Mr Andrew Goode, formerly of this parish, during the ensuing passage of play got the ball a few metres from the try line with a player outside him in space and went for glory himself instead of passing and came up short and our chances then vanished.
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