Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

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wellstiger
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by wellstiger » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:14 pm

mol2 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:39 am
wellstiger wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:37 am

Youngs box kick is now boring and predictable. Too far for a chase.The opposition read it and for me Care has overtaken Ben as England's 9 as he mixes the game better. White has to mix his game to take cement his position.

Job done....
Whilst I agree with the comments about the predictable box kicking I really don't see how Care has overtaken him at international level.

If England are looking to the future Care is not the solution. He isn't a young an upcoming player and has demonstrated on multiple occasions he can't control a game at international level. Useful for a cameo against tired players, even the that skill is waning as his pace has diminished.
Sorry I didn't mean as a future prospect. I offered an opinion in the right here and now. I'm sure EJ is looking for the future 9.

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:26 pm

wellstiger wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:14 pm
mol2 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:39 am
wellstiger wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:37 am

Youngs box kick is now boring and predictable. Too far for a chase.The opposition read it and for me Care has overtaken Ben as England's 9 as he mixes the game better. White has to mix his game to take cement his position.

Job done....
Whilst I agree with the comments about the predictable box kicking I really don't see how Care has overtaken him at international level.

If England are looking to the future Care is not the solution. He isn't a young an upcoming player and has demonstrated on multiple occasions he can't control a game at international level. Useful for a cameo against tired players, even the that skill is waning as his pace has diminished.
Sorry I didn't mean as a future prospect. I offered an opinion in the right here and now. I'm sure EJ is looking for the future 9.
Care's time has passed. He's 33 and will be 34 before the season is out. He's not exactly tearing up trees with his form either. Eddie will probably pick Youngs and Spencer. Spencer has looked pretty good for Bath so far and was the selection when we needed a replacement at the world cup.

northerntiger
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by northerntiger » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:14 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:21 pm
JP14 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:49 am
Forgive my green-tinted spectacles, but I thought the penalty on Lavanini was a load of rubbish. Firstly Lavanini didn't tuck his arm to lead in with the shoulder, he was going to make a tackle. van der Merwe tried to bounce him off, it was a rugby collision and he ended up rebounding backwards before Lavanini got him on the second go.
100% agree. That one was given because it was Lavanini making the tackle, anyone else and the TMO wouldn't have looked again. Reputation can work both ways. You could tell by the looks on the faces of Ford and Lavanini that they thought the decision was rubbish when the referee was explaining it.
He was unlucky. It only got looked at because there was a break in play just a little later. Agree with the above, it looked s though he was going to make a tackle and the speed and force of the collision caused the Sale player to bounce off

Systonite
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by Systonite » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:32 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:10 am
For me discipline killed us in the first half. Defence is still a work in progress, slightly improved on last season but we have Sale lots of penalty advantages to work with which made their life easy in attack.

Nadolo, got to get the ball in this man's hands more. He looked good when he got it but the lack of fluency in our backline was actually painful to watch. Nobody was on the same wavelength.

Liebenburg, what a performance. Best display since he joined, all action display. Most carrying since he joined but the same high work rate. More of that please.

Charlie Clare, should be his last start. Awful lineout error cost us a try and was anonymous in the loose. Lineout didn't looked dialled in with a few throws having to be slapped back rather than caught. Kerr looked good at the lineout and offers lots more in the loose, the difference in scrumming prowess wasn't as noticeable as I expected either.
A little harsh on Charlie Clare. "anonymous in the loose". I have not seen any stats, but he tackled his heart out. Must have been one of our top defenders. Good solid hits too, on world class players. Nadolo has been a superstar of world rugby. He can be a revelation for us, but he's not looking as fit as he did when at Crusaders or Montpelier. I thought I heard it said yesterday that he'd lost a couple of stones in weight since his arrival.

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:46 pm

Systonite wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:32 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:10 am
For me discipline killed us in the first half. Defence is still a work in progress, slightly improved on last season but we have Sale lots of penalty advantages to work with which made their life easy in attack.

Nadolo, got to get the ball in this man's hands more. He looked good when he got it but the lack of fluency in our backline was actually painful to watch. Nobody was on the same wavelength.

Liebenburg, what a performance. Best display since he joined, all action display. Most carrying since he joined but the same high work rate. More of that please.

Charlie Clare, should be his last start. Awful lineout error cost us a try and was anonymous in the loose. Lineout didn't looked dialled in with a few throws having to be slapped back rather than caught. Kerr looked good at the lineout and offers lots more in the loose, the difference in scrumming prowess wasn't as noticeable as I expected either.
A little harsh on Charlie Clare. "anonymous in the loose". I have not seen any stats, but he tackled his heart out. Must have been one of our top defenders. Good solid hits too, on world class players. Nadolo has been a superstar of world rugby. He can be a revelation for us, but he's not looking as fit as he did when at Crusaders or Montpelier. I thought I heard it said yesterday that he'd lost a couple of stones in weight since his arrival.
Charlie Clare, I like his workrate and his pride in the shirt. He's an ideal squad player. Sadly the only tackle I can remember from him yesterday was when he tackled air as somebody stepped him in not a lot of space. He could step up and make me change my mind but I'd like to see him be a lot more prominent around the field. Hopefully see more of Kerr and the new Georgian in the next two games.

drc_007
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by drc_007 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:50 pm

Stats are here https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstat ... gue=267979

Clare made 15 tackles missed 2.

DingDong
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by DingDong » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:25 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:10 am
Charlie Clare, should be his last start. Awful lineout error cost us a try and was anonymous in the loose. Lineout didn't looked dialled in with a few throws having to be slapped back rather than caught.
Interesting! Looked to me like bad timing from the lifters, and as for the slap backs - if you can slap it you can catch it.

Clares scrummaging is always good, but as for being anonymous on the loose, have you seen the tackle stats? Who was our top tackler???

Personally I think the label for being an anonymous starting hooker well and truly belongs to Kerr (at the moment).

Systonite
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by Systonite » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:27 pm

Thanks drc. I didn't know about that ESPN resource.
Nor did I know that a player could achieve anonymity in the loose by being his team's joint top tackler.

JP14
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by JP14 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:55 pm

Yes I agree, Lavanini's past indiscretions is probably at the back of an official's head so they're always on his tail.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Dangerous4
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by Dangerous4 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:08 pm

Too slow out of the blocks, and too many silly penalties given away. We need tenacity at the start of the game, and for eighty minutes. Get these two problems sorted and we will be in the mix next season. I feel quite optomistic.

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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by Cardiff Tig » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:39 pm

chewbacca wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:11 am
For the last couple of games we have scored points in the last quarter. Is this a sign of improved fitness and performance or merely that the opposition at that stage had secured the bonus point win and had substituted some significant performers. I think it would be more telling if we were competing for a win over the full 80 minutes. Agree with the comments re Hanro. Best performance yet.
It's because we've lost every game well before that...

Crofty
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by Crofty » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:37 am

Systonite wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:27 pm
Nor did I know that a player could achieve anonymity in the loose by being his team's joint top tackler.
I think it's like Cole Derangement Syndrome that afflicts so many, including my dear old dad; an opinion has been formed on a player and any play that affirms that opinion (in classical CDS Dan is anywhere within 20 feet of a blown whistle) is noticed and irrefutable proof of the opinion and anything that disproves the opinion (in classic CDS Dan is not listed as the reason for any penalties in a game) is not noticed and therefore didn't happen...
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

BFG
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by BFG » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:04 am

Similar to other matches.
Even start.
They work the positions to score a lot of points and then drop intensity.
It's a contest and then they raise it again near the end.

sam16111986
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by sam16111986 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:13 am

DingDong wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:25 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:10 am
Charlie Clare, should be his last start. Awful lineout error cost us a try and was anonymous in the loose. Lineout didn't looked dialled in with a few throws having to be slapped back rather than caught.
Interesting! Looked to me like bad timing from the lifters, and as for the slap backs - if you can slap it you can catch it.

Clares scrummaging is always good, but as for being anonymous on the loose, have you seen the tackle stats? Who was our top tackler???

Personally I think the label for being an anonymous starting hooker well and truly belongs to Kerr (at the moment).
Normally slapped instead of caught because it's not quite in the right place. The missed lineout was a huge overthrow and a big error.

Second best tackle stats on the day, Green's are better because he doesn't miss any. As I said he works hard but impact is too small, I don't remember any big hits in those tackles. I want something more dynamic from our hooker particularly ball in hand. Our pack needs more metres ball in hand if we are going to progress.

Kerr has had one start Vs Bath since the restart and was one of our best players that day. He's been quiet off the bench since so I'd like to see get another go. Good team try from him on Saturday.

Cagey Tiger
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Re: Tigers vs Sale - 05 Sep 20

Post by Cagey Tiger » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:06 am

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:39 pm
chewbacca wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:11 am
For the last couple of games we have scored points in the last quarter. Is this a sign of improved fitness and performance or merely that the opposition at that stage had secured the bonus point win and had substituted some significant performers. I think it would be more telling if we were competing for a win over the full 80 minutes. Agree with the comments re Hanro. Best performance yet.
It's because we've lost every game well before that...
I think that's being over simplistic. Against Exeter, Gloucs and Sale the Tigers players, despite having been given a hard time in defence and conceding 4 or more tries, have still had the fight and energy to go chasing after what proved to be a lost cause. No heads going down and rolling over as often happened in previous seasons. At least give some credit where it's due.

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