Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

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Smudge
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Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by Smudge »

Following the covid 19 lockdown and the problems our professional clubs now face as a result, I have been reading
about the urgent difficulties the RL code are facing which are even worse than ours.
So for the sake of discussion, is it time to consider re-joining with them, in a game that could suit both traditions?
Could a working party from both administrations come up with a form of the game that would/could be acceptable to all?
Both codes originated from the one game and the cause of the split was primarily whether or not it should be professional.
While the RL code has veered from the original and there was great animosity in the past, the goal of all at the moment is to survive and grow.
For instance, as I complained elsewhere, we no longer ping crooked feeds, the scrum might just as well go and be restarted by a step over.. 13 or 15? Maybe a compromise of 14?
As uninviting as it may seem, the benefits could be huge.
A reasoned discussion please.
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

I think there are too many people with vested intrest in keeping them separate. Unless either gets properly on their knees with clubs going under the I just don't see it.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by mol2 »

Smudge wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:29 pm Following the covid 19 lockdown and the problems our professional clubs now face as a result, I have been reading
about the urgent difficulties the RL code are facing which are even worse than ours.
So for the sake of discussion, is it time to consider re-joining with them, in a game that could suit both traditions?
Could a working party from both administrations come up with a form of the game that would/could be acceptable to all?
Both codes originated from the one game and the cause of the split was primarily whether or not it should be professional.
While the RL code has veered from the original and there was great animosity in the past, the goal of all at the moment is to survive and grow.
For instance, as I complained elsewhere, we no longer ping crooked feeds, the scrum might just as well go and be restarted by a step over.. 13 or 15? Maybe a compromise of 14?
As uninviting as it may seem, the benefits could be huge.
A reasoned discussion please.
What are the benefits? League is even more of a niche sport played by relatively few in the North.

It might be of more benefit in Australia where league is perhaps bigger.

Two different sports with lots of similarities. Merging would be of limited benefit to either code.

Just because some think TV is better with lots of tries and no forward play doesn’t mean we should kill off Union. If you don’t like scrums, rucks, mauls and line outs then league or Aussie rules is more your cup of tea, fine but let’s not mess up up Union just for the benefit of TV and the pay of the professional game.
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by kk20gb30 »

Sympathetic toward any sport (and any person) undergoing financial difficulties because of what has happened but in this case case we are now talking in terms of two separate entities.Believe this is how it shall remain.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by longlivethecrumbie »

Like earlier posters, I just can't see this happening.

Too much water has gone under the bridge and I can't see union giving any ground as that is where the money is now. Each code can co-exist, they just need to cut their cloth accordingly (as Union teams have had to do)
ads
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by ads »

Not for me.
I moved to Halifax from Leicester when I was 16 (i'm 44 now) and have lived in Leeds for the last 20 years, after an 18 month return to Leics in my 20's.
I've played and watched league but I just find it boring. I like the 'chess' element of union as well as the unpredictable nature of the breakdown. Despite what they say, I dont think League is a faster game, its just British bulldogs with a ball.
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by Traveller »

ads wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:56 am Not for me.
I moved to Halifax from Leicester when I was 16 (i'm 44 now) and have lived in Leeds for the last 20 years, after an 18 month return to Leics in my 20's.
I've played and watched league but I just find it boring. I like the 'chess' element of union as well as the unpredictable nature of the breakdown. Despite what they say, I dont think League is a faster game, its just British bulldogs with a ball.
Do you change sides in Rugby League then if you get tackled?
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by POSTIGER »

I love both sports but because they're different sports, I think the comparisons are a bit pointless to be honest. Merging the two is an absolute non-starter and rightly so.
I saw Marika Vunibaka play
wellstiger
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by wellstiger »

To paraphrase Emily Scarrett ( BT -sale/bristol) - The rules have always been there the ref's are now implementing them.
OK she was referring to the breakdown.However we would't be having this discussion and debate every other week if the rules at scrum time were implemented. There would be no need to b......ks the game up to a league style non contested scrum.
The major pull for Union is the contested scrum and Lineout.
Surely its an easy fix.
As Austin Healey says, the scrum needs to be quicker without continual resets.I understand why regulations regarding head injuries at scrum time was brought in,but sustained long pauses between Crouch,Hold and Set and ball going in could be speeded up. Then ping immediately for any infringement. Teams will soon adapt to lower the penalty count as we are now seeing at the breakdown. Then you don't need to b---ardise the game.
Smudge
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by Smudge »

I reiterate that in raising this as a topic of dicussion, I am not proposing this myself but it is a question I have been asked by non rugby people.
We all have our history, likes and dislikes but are we therefor unable to see the wood for the trees? The bleedin' obvious?
It is the sort of question that people ask about having a Sheffield United and Wednesday, both serial failures when a
combined Sheffield City could be a much better proposition. Bristol City and Bristol Rovers, Hull KR etc etc. Birmingham City, Wolves, Albion and Villa. Vested interests and loyalties will always prevent any union , despite the obvious advantages.
But the union code has to be careful. The ignoring of the scrum feeding law is just one of many gripes I have with the way our game is going and if something is not done about it, we are in danger of turning the game into a form of RL
Likewise, the cheating of Sarries buying success at the expense of a level playing field is galling and I have to speculate whether it is ended. (How can Sale afford Manu etc. when we can't?)
I played in the days when shamaturism was rife and knew several players who were poached by RL clubs. They were banned from union clubs for life. That left a bitter taste in the mouth for generations but it is the future we should be concerned with. The past is the past.
I agree that at it's best, RU is the better code. RL people think the opposite so it's not going to happen any time soon.
But surely that doesn't mean we can't look at it, especially in these uncertain times.
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Tiglon
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by Tiglon »

It won't ever even be considered, let alone happen.

Sports fans are tribal in their loyalty. WRU just about got away with merging clubs into regions (arguably) but merging two sports into one? Nope, regardless of finances etc.

I can't think of any reason why any person involved in either game might ever be in favour of it.

Curling isn't a financially or commercially successful sport, but do you think they ever proposed merging with karate? As exciting as that might sound, I doubt it.
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by JP14 »

I like watching a bit of league on the Beebs, but I think it’s right for both codes to stay apart...
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nasher
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by nasher »

If you plan to amalgamate RU with another sport it should be American football. Greater on bulk, far more money in the game but it will need much better officials who practice the rule book not the media “game management”
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by BFG »

wellstiger wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:04 pm To paraphrase Emily Scarrett ( BT -sale/bristol) - The rules have always been there the ref's are now implementing them.
OK she was referring to the breakdown.However we would't be having this discussion and debate every other week if the rules at scrum time were implemented. There would be no need to b......ks the game up to a league style non contested scrum.
The major pull for Union is the contested scrum and Lineout.
Surely its an easy fix.
As Austin Healey says, the scrum needs to be quicker without continual resets.I understand why regulations regarding head injuries at scrum time was brought in,but sustained long pauses between Crouch,Hold and Set and ball going in could be speeded up. Then ping immediately for any infringement. Teams will soon adapt to lower the penalty count as we are now seeing at the breakdown. Then you don't need to b---ardise the game.
The long pauses are to ensure the players balance their own weight.
That bit can't be rushed with the players the size they are as it'd be dangerous.

Union and league's identities are too strong to merge in my opinion.
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Re: Reversing the great schism. Is it an option now?

Post by tigerburnie »

The scrum is an integral part of the Union game, something that has always been a part of this clubs DNA, take those away and you ruin the game as a spectacle, the constant messing around with the laws are one of the main reasons that the scrum has it's problems, enforce a straight put in. The lineout is no longer a competition, if they are seriously concerned for players safety, ban lifting and allow genuine competition for the ball.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
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