Annoyance over forward passes

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by ads » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:42 am

Do coaches/DOR's get any chance to bring things like this up? Glaring errors need to be looked into, or you'd have thought they would...

I'm not saying its an easy job, but Refs need to be accountable, as by ignoring the laws and letting things go that change games they are bringing the game in to disrepute and should be treated so. Only problem is, come down too hard on them and you risk no one ever wanting to do it....

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by BFG » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:51 am

I think there is a fair amount of expectation that people paid to do a professional job should be doing it right.
It's very different for an amateur where you have to accept that they are doing it for the love of the game.

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by BengalTiger » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:55 am

Re the forward passes in the Bath game, it would be good to know if the ref and TMO not even seeming considering them was due to
a. personal preference of the officials to re-interpret the laws of the game.
b. as a result of another of these unhelpful guidances given to speed up the game.
c. incompetence of the officials.

It would be good to trial a season where the rules were applied correctly wherever possible, or is that too much to ask?

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:35 pm

The hookers feet at lineouts is the easiest to solve, yet no interest in doing so.
Forward passes are not always easy for a TMO to rule upon due to camera angles (although Saturdays was very obvious), first impression is usually correct...I called forward straight away.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

GETHIN EXILE
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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by GETHIN EXILE » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:39 pm

the simple answer to the forward pass is to go back to the old way - if the ball doesn't go clearly backwards then its a forward pass

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by CJ » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:26 pm

Got it in one, Gethin Exile.

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by Big Dai » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:47 pm

Robespierre wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:25 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:50 pm
Go on, add the two clear occasions when a young Tiger went for a ball that was legally in play, both times due to a Bath error in ensuring a back foot in evidence. One led to a penalty, kick to corner, 5m rumble over, try. Or the elbow in the face one Bath forward gave instead of a handoff.
I'm truly sick of this 'flow of play' rowlocks. The Laws are the Laws - apply them.
Good man, JG!
+1
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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by Mayocaz » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:11 pm

I totally despise the TMO. Like var in football I’ve become fed up with how some seem to have their own agendas. They seem to get involved against us at the first opportunity and are in the refs ear to a check this and push their opinions onto the ref. Then the next week they don’t say a word when the ref misses a forward pass against us. I just don’t trust the system. I’m all in that we get pinged by the TMO on weds for a forward pass the ref has missed. :smt002

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by JP14 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:16 pm

Of course everyone has an agenda, there's no avoiding that!
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by Cagey Tiger » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:08 pm

I watched a recording of the Scarlets v Blues game. In the run up to the Blues crossing the line there was a pass of around 10-12 ft that looked a bit forward. Nigel Owens passed it up to the TMO to double check, saying that the on field decision was a try as both he and the assistant referee felt that it was flat. The TMO looked at it but couldn't get it up on the big screen. The replay showed that it was almost 45° to the touch line and the passing players hands were pointing forwards. The TMO says forward pass, no try. Nige wouldn't take his word and despite there being problems getting the replay on the screen, wouldn't disallow the try without seeing the replay for himself. The commentators were :smt044 while all this was going on, the pass was so blatantly forward. Eventually, they got the replay on the big screen and the try was disallowed.

My reason for describing this is that if a ref can be certain in his own mind that a pass is 'flat' when it is blatantly forward, no wonder so many are not given.

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by JP14 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:36 pm

More crossing!
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

nasher
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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by nasher » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:24 pm

Unfortunately in the modern game “game management guidelines” carry more weight than the laws. Refs have been given free reign over many offences to promote a faster game ( probably encouraged by the media) but to old stagers like me I am very confused that I do not watch many games . I do not know how players must feel.

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by TigerintheCatStand » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:04 pm

The ball may be thrown in straight at the line out, but if it is straight over the heads of the players in the thrower's team then the defending team can't compete - so they don't compete and line outs are effectively unopposed. throw it down the gap.

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by chewbacca » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:26 pm

TigerintheCatStand wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:04 pm
The ball may be thrown in straight at the line out, but if it is straight over the heads of the players in the thrower's team then the defending team can't compete - so they don't compete and line outs are effectively unopposed. throw it down the gap.
Hooker goes to touchline in front of assistant ref. Ref ensures there is a gap, hooker takes one pace towards his team, assistant ref follows his move. Guarantees its not going to be thrown down the middle. Of course when he throws he is also standing on the pitch, ball goes directly down the line of players, opposing players can compete but have to jump across and get penalised. Easy to police and totally ignored every time.
I'm not cynical just experienced

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Re: Annoyance over forward passes

Post by ABClub » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:45 pm

chewbacca wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:26 pm
TigerintheCatStand wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:04 pm
The ball may be thrown in straight at the line out, but if it is straight over the heads of the players in the thrower's team then the defending team can't compete - so they don't compete and line outs are effectively unopposed. throw it down the gap.
Hooker goes to touchline in front of assistant ref. Ref ensures there is a gap, hooker takes one pace towards his team, assistant ref follows his move. Guarantees its not going to be thrown down the middle. Of course when he throws he is also standing on the pitch, ball goes directly down the line of players, opposing players can compete but have to jump across and get penalised. Easy to police and totally ignored every time.
It's the new form of feeding in the scrum, just in the lineout. Drives me completely insane.

Others might have earlier examples of it being common but I have a sneaky feeling it might be a Jones/Borthwick move. Shota Horie started doing it for Japan under Jones. Then Hartley and George starting doing it almost immediately under Jones.

Tommy Taylor and then Rob Webber were two of the more blatant exponents of it for a while too, both Sale so would suggest that a coach there picked up on it early on.

Jamie George is a good lineout thrower but was one of the first with that sneaky tendency to edge his feet in front of the touchline when throwing in as well. Whilst that doesn't effect the game as much taking a step towards your lineout it's still annoying.

A few years down the line and most sides have cottoned on, it's common place and it's not been cracked down on in any way. Infuriating. Rugby consistently has tried to create new rules to get the game flowing but frequently fails to enforce the basic, existing laws.

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