Teams up v Bath

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JP14
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by JP14 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:51 am

The disappointment for me was that if we had been more clinical we could have got a try-scoring bonus point.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

CV10
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by CV10 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:57 am

I can’t believe the number of negative comments on this forum. We have a new coaching structure that has only been in place for around six or seven weeks. We have a lot of new and promising talent who have never played together before and we have some really good players who are still to arrive ie international full back, a class winger, two really combative back rows, a hooker and a forty cap Argentinian centre. Let’s get behind all the guys as I’m sure we need to be patient over this period until SB has the full squad available and he’s been able to install how he wants them to play.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Crofty » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:59 am

sapajo wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:21 am
Truefollower wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:47 am
I am so pleased we have such true supporters like Scott 1, so positive just what you need as we strip back and rebuild a league winning side in 6 weeks. It will take SB at least 2 seasons and a lot of heartache on the way. Stay strong and SUPPORT your club.
Truefollower, please tell us how you define a true supporter and follower?
I too would be interested in this, I mean I'll be there the season after next whether we're hosting Bath or Ealing, but I won't be happy about it if it is Ealing, nor will I be happy on the ride down, does that displeasure bar me from your definition?
No, not that one!

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RagingBull
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by RagingBull » Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:59 am

IDK Kerr to me just seems back up player.
Which is why I was sort of surprised people was suggesting he would be better to have in the squad than Montoya.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by jgriffin » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:07 am

I can only glean positives from yesterday. It was a dead rubber, yet we found that Henry is a very good 10 (the goal kicking will come back), McWilliams isn't, Martin, Smith, Kerr, Leatigaga, Clare are quality players on the up, etc. Fitness levels are very good and can reach top international level if this has been done over a few weeks with Walters.
There is no way a bunch of possibles and development players could be expected to play and beat a largely international team in their first ever competitive game together.
Defence and attack need work, but that was a known with such a new squad.
We need a couple more games with the full squad to get a hold on what to expect, but seeing how Chiefs stuffed Sale (courtesy of Foley's blind eye for blocking etc, as with us), our result at Sandy Park seems a lot less awful than some put out on here.
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JP14
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by JP14 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:14 am

Can't wait for Bath to get humbled, bet their supporters are in jubilation at the moment.

Well done for not being able to put a cricket score over a development team :smt038, can't wait for you to have your pants pulled down again by the likes of Bristol, Exeter and Sale...
Last edited by JP14 on Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BigDan50
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by BigDan50 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:22 am

JP14, why do you hate Bath and the supporters.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by mol2 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:38 am

[quote=aslongaswebeatsaints post_id=750003 time=1598136234 user_id=15896


3. Gave the opportunity for arguable the second tier of signings from outside the Prem to blow the cobwebs out. I thought Zack Henry was the surprise of the bunch, particularly when he moved to 10 - a real rough diamond. Just needs GF to take him under his wing.
[/quote]

Hasn’t that been Tigers’ problem. Confusing good players with good coaches?

The coaches need to be doing that job not expecting the players to do that. Sure the experience of playing with international colleagues may illustrate the dedication needed, however it takes a skilled coach to look at players at this level and work out how to take the individual to the next level within the team.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Big Dai » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:49 am

BigDan50 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:22 am
JP14, why do you hate Bath and the supporters.
It may go back to a time when Bath were considered the arch enemy, rather than Wasps or Saints?

Personally I don't like Wasps, (Back to the Florence and Matilda days) Have nothing against Saints, but have a fond disregard for Bath, stemming back to the likes of Robinson, Hall, Obugu, Adedeyo Adebeyo, Guscott and the commentator who shall not be named lest it invokes the apocoloyse.
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Grumpy of Crumbie
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:13 pm

I read with interest the variety of views after two games under the new regime. A large number of those who were shouting for huge change at all levels Board, Coaching and Playing and subsequently got their wish now appear very dissatisfied with the progress made after two games. The DOR, a number of players, the chairman are already being singled out as not good enough and should go.

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion so here is mine to be put alongside those of the ‘armchair coaches’.

Taking a step back and trying to look at the facts about where we are.

The players haven’t played any competitive rugby for over 4 months, the new coaching team have only been working together in anything close to a ‘normal’ coaching situation for a few weeks. The huge changes in playing staff have resulted in players arriving at different times with varying levels of fitness.

The head coach and his team have made two team selections and whether you agree with those selections or not surely respect has to be given to the new coaching team who were welcomed as a positive step forward by pretty much everybody.

The coaches have now given game time to most, if not all of the available playing squad and will have seen a large number of those players perform in a competitive game for the first time. You can debate for ever about the mix of the selections but surely, for now at least, we have to give this high quality, tried and tested international coaching team some credibility for knowing what they are doing.

Yes there is a view that the lockdown has been the same for all teams but clearly it hasn’t. No other team comes close to the changes that have taken place at Tigers during this period. A hugely changed squad and coaching team have to work together to develop as a team with a clear and coherent approach to the way both individuals and team are expected to play. I can’t think of any other area of life where you would expect to achieve this in just a few weeks so why rugby?

We have played two teams who have fielded close to full strength sides that have had minimal changes since play was suspended. I’m sure the coaches will have learnt an awful lot from those two games and that won’t just be rugby skills but character, discipline, determination and all those other good things that go into making a successful rugby player. Many were calling for the introduction of the youngsters, well that is happening. Almost certainly some will sink and some will swim. Shouldn’t we have trust in the coaching team to make those calls.

Surely the only remote possibility of instant success is to buy experienced players who in theory can hit the ground running, gel immediately into a coherent team and produce world beating performances. You know those affectionately referred to as ‘journeymen’ on this forum. Sorry forgot, that’s been tried and also dismissed by the forum as the wrong approach.

The coaching team and playing squad have been gifted a series of fixtures against the best teams in England where arguably the result isn’t the most important factor. I hate losing as much as anyone but I would expect the coaches can’t believe their luck in having this series of games to implement their vision for the future. While you’d hope for victories as the plan begins to take shape I’d take losing all these fixtures if we start next season as a highly competitive team, with a clear identity that nobody wants to against.
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:16 pm

Given the midweek games rotation was inevitable so I don’t get why some people are so upset, especially as this season is a write off with Saracens being relegated and we have a new coaching set up.

We’ve definitely learnt which young players can mix it at premiership level and which need more work. Next season if we had injuries I’d have no worries with the likes of Kerr, Martin, Potter or Porter coming into the starting XV on yesterday’s showing.

Plus it reconfirmed that Wallace and Leatigaga are quality players who will only get better under Borthwick’s coaching. Wallace especially has got more gas than I thought and in a big pack could be very destructive at the breakdown, very astute signing and can’t wait to see more of him in a Tigers shirt.

In the pack we still have the likes of Montoya, Mamu, Brink, Gigena and Wiese to join the squad so I think we’re in a good place.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by amazing tiger » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:23 pm

I dont know what people expected from yesterday once the team was named we always knew it was going to be tough! We are in the middle of a massive rebuilding phase after lockdown and it won't be over in just two games.

Many people have moaned on here wanting the youth to be played and now they've played people are saying they are no good after just one pretty much dead rubber game against a strong bath team. There were positives yesterday and yes we made mistakes but let's give the team time to rebuild and maybe just focus on the challenge cup and use these games as a pre season.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by wellstiger » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:41 pm

If Barff are looking to progress, surely not scoring against any team for the last 53 mins of a game is a real negative. Especially as they fielded a greatly international biased team.Plus a heavier pack.
I take the effort of a new look, young team to be a real positive. We finished strongly and for the majority of the last 53 mins were camped in the Barff half. Our penalty count was down on last week even though we competed at the break down.
I agree Lavanini was not at his best , I would rest him or bench him for LI.

SB has intonated that the adapting to the style he wants us to play is the priority.The attack effort will be introduced when this is nailed down.( Hopefully introducing it for the start of next season )
I believe most players within the squad ( exempting those gaining fitness ) have now gained experience in the prem, in a Tigers shirt, under the new game plan. We all extol the value of Sorries squad knowing to a man what they need to do when coming of the bench without lessening the intensity. I believe we are to mirror that ideology.
SB now has a better indicator of what he has to work with( under fire ) and who may be his first team choice.
If SB is targeting LI ( who are no walk over ) then he needs to play his first team choice.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by wellstiger » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:51 pm

If we are using Man U in this forum as an example then surely..
"Borthwicks Babes" would have been appropriate for the team playing Barff.

And may well stick for the foreseeable........ :smt023

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Crofty » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:02 pm

Some of you do realise that it is possible to be disappointed in yesterday's shellacking (and it was a shellacking, 10-15 minutes of "gloss" at the end when Bath switched off only altered the scoreboard not the actual performance) while also understanding that improvement will come with our objectively better set up, right? Or to put it another way would it be fair for me to just presume that those criticising the critics are following the Melchettian tactic of, "if nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through"?

There are two selection philosophies that are available in this dead rubber period, A) mix in the new faces with the older heads to try and develop new partnerships and bring on the youngsters by having them play alongside experienced stars or B) have a Test team and a Midweek team. A) to my mind, and probably to the minds of most of those who found yesterday unacceptable, would probably lead to more losses but they'd be closer and, by changing the actual composition of the mixtures, would give indications of how the new faces would blend in in more realistic injury/international absence cover situations. B) is what you do when you're trying to tooth and claw as many wins as you can, if Sarries hadn't been a big bunch of cheats I'd be advocating B), which is what the coaches have gone for, but they were so I'm not.

What did we actually learn yesterday, that our seconds are a long way behind Bath's firsts, not sure that needed empirical validation but OK, that Lavanini is a bit of a penalty magnet, again could have found that out with a more mixed selection, and the relative merits of our seconds mostly among themselves, we can't say we learned anything definitive about them or how they stack up relative to the firsts because we do not know, and can not know, how the firsts would have got on. Maybe they would have been buried by 60, maybe they'd have pantsed Bath and taken a 5 pointer with the words, "White, Ford, Scott, Potter! POTTER!!!" becoming t-shirt fodder for generations to come...

The only hope I have is that I hope Smurf and the Dark Lord understand that this selection hasn't told them much in direct comparison to the established names and so the youngsters get another chance alongside more established names or we'll be on here in 5 years time watching our academy prospects who we let whither on the vine once again tear up trees for Premiership rivals.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

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