Teams up v Bath

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JP14
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by JP14 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:07 pm

Again bit disappointed by Lavanini, I understand he might improve once he’s back with Gigena but nonetheless still a bit underwhelmed by his performances post-lockdown.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by JP14 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:10 pm

However was very impressed by Martin, he stood up. Henderson made a good impact, Potter was everywhere and made a good impression, the cynicism in me makes me think he wouldn’t have wanted to score anyway to escape the rubbish puns by the BT Commentary.

Felt like there was a chance to put a bit more respectability on the scoreboard with some chances wasted, Henry rushed his two kicks too much.

Tell you what though, that was a really good try at the end. Onwards and upwards folks.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Fish8ter
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Fish8ter » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:13 pm

Like most, I was disappointed by the team selection, considering it is Barth, then the Not Nots.

However while there seems to be general hysteria over we are doomed, the ‘kids’ won’t have learnt anything, I totally disagree. I am remember a England team being drubbed in Australia and then some of those players winning World Cup.

I think it will be huge learning curve for some of the young players now realising the level they need to achieve to convert from being a promising u20 to a premiership player. As much as today hurt, I am sure next year we will reap the rewards of blooding our youngsters and at worst know who is not going to make it.

I also think Hooper and Barth would of loved to put 50 points on us and while I agree some may of eased off, we showed enough fight/desire to not capitulate and our last try was well constructed.
Last edited by Fish8ter on Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tiglon
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:14 pm

JP14 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:10 pm
However was very impressed by Martin, he stood up. Henderson made a good impact, Potter was everywhere and made a good impression, the cynicism in me makes me think he wouldn’t have wanted to score anyway to escape the rubbish puns by the BT Commentary.

Felt like there was a chance to put a bit more respectability on the scoreboard with some chances wasted, Henry rushed his two kicks too much.

Tell you what though, that was a really good try at the end. Onwards and upwards folks.
I wasn't impressed by Martin in the first half but he grew into the game and improved as it went on - that is a very very good sign and exactly what you want from a senior debut.

Agree on Lavanini, but maybe we are expecting too much of him.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by BFG » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:17 pm

Full honesty mode.
Some players may be rusty but I expected a bit more from the starting forwards.
Wallace and Leatigaga looked like two starters able to compete at this level.
Can't judge backs on that struggle, some may also be rusty.
I haven't seen Lavanini have what I'd consider a good game yet but accept that he has come from afar into a struggling side in a new country which can't be easy all round.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:24 pm

BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:17 pm
Full honesty mode.
Some players may be rusty but I expected a bit more from the starting forwards.
Wallace and Leatigaga looked like two starters able to compete at this level.
Can't judge backs on that struggle, some may also be rusty.
I haven't seen Lavanini have what I'd consider a good game yet but accept that he has come from afar into a struggling side in a new country which can't be easy all round.
This is the only major concern for me about today. Bath's front five are nothing special, but they dominated ours for a good 20-30 minutes in the first half and that was a big factor in the scoreline.

ay2oh
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by ay2oh » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:27 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:24 pm
BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:17 pm
Full honesty mode.
Some players may be rusty but I expected a bit more from the starting forwards.
Wallace and Leatigaga looked like two starters able to compete at this level.
Can't judge backs on that struggle, some may also be rusty.
I haven't seen Lavanini have what I'd consider a good game yet but accept that he has come from afar into a struggling side in a new country which can't be easy all round.
This is the only major concern for me about today. Bath's front five are nothing special, but they dominated ours for a good 20-30 minutes in the first half and that was a big factor in the scoreline.
Agree but if you put Taufua, Liebenberg Genge and Wells into the pack it would make a bit difference
A2O

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by RagingBull » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:30 pm

Martin finished on 19 tackles and missed 2 and was the lineout leader. Which for me is pretty impressive for a player who was only 18 last month in a position he hadn't started in before.

Our backline at the end looked way more balance with players playing in their main slot.
9. White/JVP, 10. Henry, 11. Potter, 12. Hardwick, 13. Porter, 14. Simmons, 15. Steward

Now Simmons is a 9 originally but with 3 9's in the development squad I feel he could actually make some head way changing to the back 3 and making that his main focus in training. Kind of like Holmes did.

Looking forward to seeing more of Henderson and makes me hope we also got it right with Kelly and Chessum.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by RagingBull » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:32 pm

Bath tight five was
1. Lewis Boyce, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C)

4 players who have International caps or have been around the setup
Not exactly a pushover especially with that back row behind them.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:39 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:24 pm
BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:17 pm
Full honesty mode.
Some players may be rusty but I expected a bit more from the starting forwards.
Wallace and Leatigaga looked like two starters able to compete at this level.
Can't judge backs on that struggle, some may also be rusty.
I haven't seen Lavanini have what I'd consider a good game yet but accept that he has come from afar into a struggling side in a new country which can't be easy all round.
This is the only major concern for me about today. Bath's front five are nothing special, but they dominated ours for a good 20-30 minutes in the first half and that was a big factor in the scoreline.
The Bath tight five had played together as a unit more bit I felt it was their backrow that really gave them the edge. The Bath backrow were making some big hits to knock us back and halt momentum and were cleaning us out effectively so we couldn't slow the ball down.

Liebenburg and Taufua would have made a huge difference in there though I thought Martin did well and Wallace put a good shift in.

As RB says the backline at the end of the game was a significant improvement on the starting one. McPhillips could find himself back out on loan in the Championship next season if he continues to be that dire. With Henry looking so good he might not get another chance, Hardwick at 12 seems to be the way forward for him though he might need to add a little more power to his carrying game.

Tiglon
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Tiglon » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:44 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:27 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:24 pm
BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:17 pm
Full honesty mode.
Some players may be rusty but I expected a bit more from the starting forwards.
Wallace and Leatigaga looked like two starters able to compete at this level.
Can't judge backs on that struggle, some may also be rusty.
I haven't seen Lavanini have what I'd consider a good game yet but accept that he has come from afar into a struggling side in a new country which can't be easy all round.
This is the only major concern for me about today. Bath's front five are nothing special, but they dominated ours for a good 20-30 minutes in the first half and that was a big factor in the scoreline.
Agree but if you put Taufua, Liebenberg Genge and Wells into the pack it would make a bit difference
Completely agree, I would have thought Leatigaga, Kerr, Heyes, Lavanini and Enever would have been capable of more though - only Leatigaga shone for me. That's three tier 1 internationals (actually capped, not just "been around the setup")and a highly rated England U20 international who all disappointed. Perhaps they are still getting to know each other, or perhaps we need to lower our expectations of them.

You can spin the Bath front five either way - McNally is a 29 year old in his first Premiership season, if Tigers signed him you wouldn't be able to move for all the "why have we signed another mediocre journeyman?" comments. Only Ewels and Stuart have caps. No, not a pushover, no one has said they should have been - but ours definitely shouldn't have been either and yet they were for much of the match.

Who thinks after that match that Heyes is destined to play for England, Kerr is a top prospect, Lavanini is a world class 2nd row, or Enever is living up to his international Aussie status?

I didn't realise Martin was quite so young - as I said, he is promising.

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:49 pm

Here’s my take on things, against a first string Bath team with a massive pack I think we did pretty good, especially as we didn’t let our heads drop and fought back near the end. In the past we would have imploded.

15. Henry - 7 - seems very composed ball in hand and the attack improved immeasurably when he moved to 10. For me he’s the understudy to Ford at fly half.

14. Potter - 6.5 - thought he showed some glimpses of class with the ball and good kick chase. One for the future and very glad with his addition. Excited to see him again in a Tigers shirt.

13. Worth - 4 - second game in a row where he hasn’t impressed. Maybe could do with a loan away in the championship to nail down a position and get some confidence back into his game.

12. Porter - 6.5 - always willing to carry the ball into traffic and get stuck in. Think he looks to be better in the wider channels from 13 but again very happy that he’s joined the club.

11. Simmons - 6 - maybe lacked some positioning in the backfield but ball in hand looked like he could do something. We’re stocked at scrum half so could see him in the back three.

10. McPhillips - 4.5 - attack seemed to lack direction with him at 10.

9. White - 6.5 - think he’s underrated on this forum and in time will be a Tigers great. When he ups the tempo Tigers look a different team. He’s captained Eng U20 but maybe went a bit missing in the leadership department today.

8. Smith - 5.5 - started strongly with a good carry but faded as the game went on. Against an exceptional Bath backrow and think he has potential.

7. Wallace - 7 - quality player, massive work rate and good pace. One of the few players who looked premiership standard and wouldn’t look out of place in the starting XV.

6. Martin - 6.5 - started slowly but grew as the game went on. He’s only 19 and has a massive career ahead of him.

5. Enever - 5 - a senior player who needed to impose themselves on the game but failed to do so. First game in the premiership so hopefully will settle.

4. Lavanini - 4.5 - gave away some stupid penalties, missed a massive tackle for a Bath try and let the team down today. On today’s showing think Wells and Green on current form are a better partnership.

3. Heyes - 5.5 - against a massive front row and did okay. Could do with putting some more weight on and throw himself around more on the pitch.

2. Kerr - 7.5(MoM) - Tigers best player and was all over the pitch making tackles. Lineout functioned very well.

1. Leatigaga - 7.5 - our other best player on the pitch and made some crucial turnovers. Needs to carry the ball a bit lower into contact though.

Cole made a big impact coming on. Was very impressed by JVP thought he brought some zip on the pitch. Hardwick could make a very good 12 and like his cocky attitude.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by RagingBull » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:51 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:44 pm
You can spin the Bath front five either way - McNally is a 29 year old in his first Premiership season, if Tigers signed him you wouldn't be able to move for all the "why have we signed another mediocre journeyman?" comments. Only Ewels and Stuart have caps. No, not a pushover, no one has said they should have been - but ours definitely shouldn't have been either and yet they were for much of the match.
Boyce is capped.
McNally second season also pretty sure people wanted him when he was briefly linked to us.

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by Scott1 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:59 pm

A lot of excuses again, as per!

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Re: Teams up v Bath

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:03 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:49 pm
Here’s my take on things, against a first string Bath team with a massive pack I think we did pretty good, especially as we didn’t let our heads drop and fought back near the end. In the past we would have imploded.

15. Henry - 7 - seems very composed ball in hand and the attack improved immeasurably when he moved to 10. For me he’s the understudy to Ford at fly half.

14. Potter - 6.5 - thought he showed some glimpses of class with the ball and good kick chase. One for the future and very glad with his addition. Excited to see him again in a Tigers shirt.

13. Worth - 4 - second game in a row where he hasn’t impressed. Maybe could do with a loan away in the championship to nail down a position and get some confidence back into his game.

12. Porter - 6.5 - always willing to carry the ball into traffic and get stuck in. Think he looks to be better in the wider channels from 13 but again very happy that he’s joined the club.

11. Simmons - 6 - maybe lacked some positioning in the backfield but ball in hand looked like he could do something. We’re stocked at scrum half so could see him in the back three.

10. McPhillips - 4.5 - attack seemed to lack direction with him at 10.

9. White - 6.5 - think he’s underrated on this forum and in time will be a Tigers great. When he ups the tempo Tigers look a different team. He’s captained Eng U20 but maybe went a bit missing in the leadership department today.

8. Smith - 5.5 - started strongly with a good carry but faded as the game went on. Against an exceptional Bath backrow and think he has potential.

7. Wallace - 7 - quality player, massive work rate and good pace. One of the few players who looked premiership standard and wouldn’t look out of place in the starting XV.

6. Martin - 6.5 - started slowly but grew as the game went on. He’s only 19 and has a massive career ahead of him.

5. Enever - 5 - a senior player who needed to impose themselves on the game but failed to do so. First game in the premiership so hopefully will settle.

4. Lavanini - 4.5 - gave away some stupid penalties, missed a massive tackle for a Bath try and let the team down today. On today’s showing think Wells and Green on current form are a better partnership.

3. Heyes - 5.5 - against a massive front row and did okay. Could do with putting some more weight on and throw himself around more on the pitch.

2. Kerr - 7.5(MoM) - Tigers best player and was all over the pitch making tackles. Lineout functioned very well.

1. Leatigaga - 7.5 - our other best player on the pitch and made some crucial turnovers. Needs to carry the ball a bit lower into contact though.

Cole made a big impact coming on. Was very impressed by JVP thought he brought some zip on the pitch. Hardwick could make a very good 12 and like his cocky attitude.
I think a touch harsh on Worth and Lavanini. Worth was solid but unspectacular. Lavanini worked hard but as you say a couple of silly pens and you can't blame him for his support defenders leaving him completely stranded in the middle of the park for a fresh onto the field back to run round.

McPhillips would struggle to get more than a 3/10 from me and that's only because of his points kicking. Take that away and it's a 2/10.

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