New Salary Cap Investigation

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GB72
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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by GB72 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:12 am

This could lead to an interesting situation. If a second team is found guilty how do you deal with it? Do you relegate 2 teams at the end of the season and promote 2? That would leave an awkward position with the proposed ring fencing as only one of the teams could come back up. The other team could face another 3 years in the championship. If you do not relegate, is that treating everyone fairly. If the investigation is not concluded until next season when there may be no relegation, how do you adequately punish a team. This could open a whole new can of worms.

JP14
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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by JP14 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:01 am

Depends on the severity of the breach, we have to remember that Saracens were cheating over a prolonged period of time after already being in trouble with the salary cap manager, I doubt another team will get relegated, it will probably just be a significant fine.
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johnthegriff
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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by johnthegriff » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:36 am

That is the problem with ringfencing, if the Championship clubs have no realistic possibility of promotion they will not have invested in facilities that would enable them to accept elevation even supposing that the second tier would accept a disgraced team from the Premiership. The authorities would be in the position of having a choice between a substantial fine which written off against tax would mean little to a very wealthy owner or possibly having one less team in the Premiership meaning one less game and consequent loss of revenue to the remaining clubs or having to compromise standards of ground criteria and accept a team that had not actually had the time to build themselves up to a situation where they had even the faintest chance of survival in the Premiership..

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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by sapajo » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:53 am

JP14 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:01 am
Depends on the severity of the breach, we have to remember that Saracens were cheating over a prolonged period of time after already being in trouble with the salary cap manager, I doubt another team will get relegated, it will probably just be a significant fine.
Agreed, plus they must be forced to comply with the cap in season and it must be a very substantial fine in order to perturb rich club owners.
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Dangerous4
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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by Dangerous4 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:05 am

A very severe fine, and a ban from any possibe European competition, for five years. I am not going to speculate but it must be one of the clubs close to the top, or one who has been.

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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:46 am

PRL have got themselves in a mess by not sorting the cap breaches earlier, if you are another team that can see what's going on & see your opponent isn't getting hauled over the coals, some will decide what's good enough for the goose....
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trendylfj
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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by trendylfj » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:32 pm

GB72 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:12 am
This could lead to an interesting situation. If a second team is found guilty how do you deal with it? Do you relegate 2 teams at the end of the season and promote 2? That would leave an awkward position with the proposed ring fencing as only one of the teams could come back up. The other team could face another 3 years in the championship. If you do not relegate, is that treating everyone fairly. If the investigation is not concluded until next season when there may be no relegation, how do you adequately punish a team. This could open a whole new can of worms.
I nearly posted something very similar but then remembered that Sarries had been penalised a load of points on 2 occasions so that they could not avoid relegation. Can' see any new case being in the same league as this would be a "1st" offence and if they are fined the same number of points that Sarries was for their "1st" offence they would still not get relegated. Might mean we have a chance of qualifying for big Euro comp though
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:41 pm

trendylfj wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:32 pm
GB72 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:12 am
This could lead to an interesting situation. If a second team is found guilty how do you deal with it? Do you relegate 2 teams at the end of the season and promote 2? That would leave an awkward position with the proposed ring fencing as only one of the teams could come back up. The other team could face another 3 years in the championship. If you do not relegate, is that treating everyone fairly. If the investigation is not concluded until next season when there may be no relegation, how do you adequately punish a team. This could open a whole new can of worms.
I nearly posted something very similar but then remembered that Sarries had been penalised a load of points on 2 occasions so that they could not avoid relegation. Can' see any new case being in the same league as this would be a "1st" offence and if they are fined the same number of points that Sarries was for their "1st" offence they would still not get relegated. Might mean we have a chance of qualifying for big Euro comp though
I may be wrong but I think the first breach of the salary cap was in 2015 and there was no points deduction, just a slap on the wrist. The two separate points deductions were for the same 2nd breach (only the increased the penalty for the 2nd offense)
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BFG
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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by BFG » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:12 pm

I saw it argued on another online site that it had become obvious that Sarries would overtake those above after the first points deduction, so then the second points deduction was given out but the chance still existed that they might overhaul a team above with a squad that had effectively been put together against the regulations therefore relegation was confirmed.
That sounds about right to me.
If another has cheated then they also deserve to be relegated in my opinion.

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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by Traveller » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:14 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:46 am
PRL have got themselves in a mess by not sorting the cap breaches earlier, if you are another team that can see what's going on & see your opponent isn't getting hauled over the coals, some will decide what's good enough for the goose....
The problem is that the PRL is only as strong as the club owners allow it to be. In 2015 at the time of the 1st 'investigation' Saracens and a.n.other club (and what a beautiful city it is) were found to be in clear breach. Harlequins were incensed because they'd had to deal with Bloodgate and wanted action taken. They were prepared to take the lead. The owner of the 2nd club found to be in clear breach gave his copy of the documentation to the Harlequins chair and told him to go to the media / to take action if he wanted to but said he'd be laughed out of court by everyone because of bloodgate. The other clubs were reminded that if they blew the game up at that moment the new tv deal would be toast. Not least because if the two clubs that had been found to be in breach were disciplined - they would ensure that there would be an investigation into all the other clubs to ensure everyone was whiter than white. End result: Other clubs turn a blind eye, based on new tv money. Agree to a) wrap on knuckles b) promises to be good boys in the future c) get new tv money d) Keep quiet and don't publish the report. So the clubs decided what to do. He who pays the piper.

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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by Jacko27 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:28 am

Look on the bright side. "In the running for top 4" definitively rules us out.

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Re: New Salary Cap Investigation

Post by Cardiff Tig » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:45 am

Traveller wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:14 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:46 am
PRL have got themselves in a mess by not sorting the cap breaches earlier, if you are another team that can see what's going on & see your opponent isn't getting hauled over the coals, some will decide what's good enough for the goose....
The problem is that the PRL is only as strong as the club owners allow it to be. In 2015 at the time of the 1st 'investigation' Saracens and a.n.other club (and what a beautiful city it is) were found to be in clear breach. Harlequins were incensed because they'd had to deal with Bloodgate and wanted action taken. They were prepared to take the lead. The owner of the 2nd club found to be in clear breach gave his copy of the documentation to the Harlequins chair and told him to go to the media / to take action if he wanted to but said he'd be laughed out of court by everyone because of bloodgate. The other clubs were reminded that if they blew the game up at that moment the new tv deal would be toast. Not least because if the two clubs that had been found to be in breach were disciplined - they would ensure that there would be an investigation into all the other clubs to ensure everyone was whiter than white. End result: Other clubs turn a blind eye, based on new tv money. Agree to a) wrap on knuckles b) promises to be good boys in the future c) get new tv money d) Keep quiet and don't publish the report. So the clubs decided what to do. He who pays the piper.
Wasn't there some serious loopholes in 2015 that all clubs were making use of as well? The regulations were significantly tightened up if I remembers correctly.

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