Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by ourla »

Dangerous4 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:18 pm I just don't like the idea of ringfencing.It will exremely unfair to some of the top Championship sides.
As pointed out a couple of times in the thread it's really not as actually there doesn't look to be one that is in any fit shape to compete (Sarries aside of course).
BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by BFG »

ourla wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:47 pm
BFG wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:13 pm Never say never, but this could be me done with watching the Premiership.
This may affect my passion for top level club rugby, time will tell.
I had Gloucester versus Bristol on last night but I took little notice, it just wasn't as important.
Todays Leicester fixture with Quins has lost its edge.
Losing just doesn't matter so much anymore.
Some reasons why the fact there is nothing superficially on the line doesn't hold true:

#1 Some of Tigers biggest games historically were against the Ba Ba's and against touring sides.
#2 Didn't we get 15,000 at Welford Road v Saints for the 'fill in' Cup under whatever guise it was.
#3 Coaches and players positions are always under scrutiny and losing becomes a habit.
#4 Believe it or not most coaches and players do it above all because they enjoy and are passionate about the game.

If todays game against Quins didn't mean much to you because we can't be relegated then I find that rather odd.

If you're happy about relegation ending then that's your choice.
As I said before there are no doubt pro's and con's, but there is absolutely no need to be rude to other posters who hold an alternative opinion to yourself by suggesting they are odd!
You're a bit different to my opinion on some of your points.
I've got no idea what the "fill in" Cup is but can only assume that losing did matter!
Baa Baa matches were friendlies.
Players do it for money.
BFG
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3347
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by BFG »

ourla wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:49 pm
Dangerous4 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:18 pm I just don't like the idea of ringfencing.It will exremely unfair to some of the top Championship sides.
As pointed out a couple of times in the thread it's really not as actually there doesn't look to be one that is in any fit shape to compete (Sarries aside of course).
Ourla, there is an alternative view.
Sport is supposed to be about inclusion.
Do you think that tier 1 nations should play more international fixtures against tier 2 nations and share more money?
Should tier 1 nations say, no sorry but you're just not good enough yet?
How are tier 2 nations supposed to be good enough if they don't have the competition or money to develop?
Similar applies with ringfencing in my opinion.
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by ourla »

There needs to be a path into the elite/professional game and a path of progression for players, clubs, countries. And the more meritocratic the better, By the same token there has to be a degree of realism and an understanding that elite and professional sport is to a large extent a controlled and manufactured environment.

Some didn't (still don't) want rugby to become professional, some didn't want the play offs, some don't like that Wasps moved from London to Coventry. At the end of the day you either like and keep watching the end product or you don't. The people that own the clubs and run the League will suffer/prosper on their actions.

I don't think the League should be completely closed and cut off to new teams but I do think automatically promotion and relegation has been largely detrimental to the League. Therefore I think it should be ring fenced but with some criteria set to facilitate the exit/entry of teams under certain circumstances.
Cagey Tiger
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2304
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: South Lincolnshire

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by Cagey Tiger »

BFG wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:16 am
ourla wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:47 pm
BFG wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:13 pm Never say never, but this could be me done with watching the Premiership.
This may affect my passion for top level club rugby, time will tell.
I had Gloucester versus Bristol on last night but I took little notice, it just wasn't as important.
Todays Leicester fixture with Quins has lost its edge.
Losing just doesn't matter so much anymore.
Some reasons why the fact there is nothing superficially on the line doesn't hold true:

#1 Some of Tigers biggest games historically were against the Ba Ba's and against touring sides.
#2 Didn't we get 15,000 at Welford Road v Saints for the 'fill in' Cup under whatever guise it was.
#3 Coaches and players positions are always under scrutiny and losing becomes a habit.
#4 Believe it or not most coaches and players do it above all because they enjoy and are passionate about the game.

If todays game against Quins didn't mean much to you because we can't be relegated then I find that rather odd.

If you're happy about relegation ending then that's your choice.
As I said before there are no doubt pro's and con's, but there is absolutely no need to be rude to other posters who hold an alternative opinion to yourself by suggesting they are odd!
You're a bit different to my opinion on some of your points.
I've got no idea what the "fill in" Cup is but can only assume that losing did matter!
Baa Baa matches were friendlies.
Players do it for money.
IMHO, he wasn't being rude because he didn't suggest that you were odd. He said that "I find that rather odd". If we're not allowed to find other people's posts odd from time to time...
Cardiff Tig
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1390
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by Cardiff Tig »

It seems the length of ringfencing will depend on how much BT push back. Does removing relegation change the product that they agreed to pay for?

I disagree with ringfencing in theory.

However, the Championship hasn't been fit for purpose as a second league for many years, so it will make zero difference to the 13 "premiership" clubs.
kk20gb30
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:01 pm
Location: Over The Hills & Far Away

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by kk20gb30 »

The estimated 'cost ' of promotion almost makes the Premiership an 'exclusive' habitat.....

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-35m- ... emiership/
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
johnthegriff
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2013
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by johnthegriff »

Morally ringfencing is wrong and I am against it, however in current circumstances I can see the need for it as a temporary measure to give confidence to owners and lenders trying to help a club survive the pandemic with the resulting dramatic drop in income. My concern is that once introduced it may be difficult to get rid of. The fact that promotion carries costs is irrelevant and is only of concern to teams being promoted, the raise to a higher level also carries benefits either in status or financial otherwise why would current members of the top tier want to protect their membership.
I am horrified to see the suggestion that Ealing if promoted would be sharing Loftus Road, when Wasps were there it was very definitely the worst place to visit for rugby and I was pleased when they moved to Wycombe, I can't believe I am saying this but I would rather return to Allianz Park (or whatever name it is called now). If the Shepherds Bush ground is the proposed venue then Ealing should not be promoted, the ground is ok for soccer and large crowds but is totally unsuitable for 5 or 6 thousand rugby fans, it was far worse than the Madjeski or the Ricoh and almost as bad as when Newcastle tried a game at Gateshead athletic stadium.
Come on Pirates, get that stadium built we want you!
TiltonTiger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:51 pm

PL Ring Fencing

Post by TiltonTiger »

I wonder if the reaction to this football nonsense will have any effect on Premiership plans for ring fencing?
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: PL Ring Fencing

Post by ourla »

TiltonTiger wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:17 pm I wonder if the reaction to this football nonsense will have any effect on Premiership plans for ring fencing?
I was thinking the same thing.

My preference is that the Championship is beefed up to create a meaningful second tier that means it's not the end of the world to get relegated and that promoted teams can be competitive.

If that isn't going to happen then at least say so and ringfence. Seems to me the biggest problem is doing neither.

The proposal for this new football Super League actually has the same problem. They either need to go full NFL/IPL or forget it. Haven't 15 permanent members with 5 to qualify but no salary cap/drafting system is a halfway house and I can't see how it will work.
westwinds31
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5976
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by westwinds31 »

I’m against it, but it seems inevitable. At the moment, the Championship is a decent vehicle for squad players of Prem clubs to get game time, keep competitive and to a lesser extent, put themselves in the shop window if their club releases them. Of course, they take the place of a player who himself is trying to improve or get established, in some cases anyway. So, if the ring fencing happens,, the clubs that aren’t already semi pro will more than likely have to go down that route, and the standard will go down and it will have a detrimental effect on the squad players I mention. The A League is a joke, some game time in front of a couple of hundred people, with some players returning from Injury and testing fitness, plus some Academy players. How will those players get the necessary experience ? There’s a few comparisons with this and the ESL....no relegation = nothing to play for. Some premiership clubs struggle for fans as it is, so watch the attendances drop when Worcester take on Newcastle to see who comes 11th. Then there’s BT Sport....do they want to televise a meaningless match with 1,000 viewers ?
Jimmy Skitz
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4952
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: Thurnby Lodge

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by Jimmy Skitz »

I think you are delusional if you think the reaction to ring fencing would even cause a ripple on the lake compared to this, the interest in club rugby union is minuscule in comparison to Football and the powers that be know it
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16783
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by Scott1 »

Jimmy Skitz wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:34 pm I think you are delusional if you think the reaction to ring fencing would even cause a ripple on the lake compared to this, the interest in club rugby union is minuscule in comparison to Football and the powers that be know it
Exactly! A reported estimate of 40m football fans in the UK and 3.5bn worldwide. Different stratosphere!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by ourla »

Jimmy Skitz wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:34 pm I think you are delusional if you think the reaction to ring fencing would even cause a ripple on the lake compared to this, the interest in club rugby union is minuscule in comparison to Football and the powers that be know it
Not sure if that is a reaction to my post. If so, you missed the point.
Jimmy Skitz
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4952
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: Thurnby Lodge

Re: Ringfencing NOW upon us ?

Post by Jimmy Skitz »

ourla wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:06 am
Jimmy Skitz wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:34 pm I think you are delusional if you think the reaction to ring fencing would even cause a ripple on the lake compared to this, the interest in club rugby union is minuscule in comparison to Football and the powers that be know it
Not sure if that is a reaction to my post. If so, you missed the point.
No I didn’t, the backlash to this supposed super league would have effect of and plans to ring fence the premiership, it won’t cause the powers that be to think twice
Post Reply