Championship clubs to break away?

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Crofty
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Crofty » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:48 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:28 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:17 pm
Longshanks wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:58 am


Indeed. Very tough on the ambitious Championship clubs to discover there is a glass ceiling, no matter how well they perform or how much they invest in meeting the other Premiership eligibility criteria.

Or is there to be a route up by default (e.g.. should an existing Premiership club enter administration and no longer be a going concern)?
To my mind there should be an even number of teams in a division, that way you can have all teams having a fixture in each round. Make an offer of 14 clubs and see which clubs are ambitious enough to try for it...
Disagree. By having an odd number of teams it gives one team a rest every week-end :smt023
Nothing to stop you having two teams rest in a week, that's how the 32 team NFL do it.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

Tiglon
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Tiglon » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:15 pm

Crofty wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:48 pm
ay2oh wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:28 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:17 pm


To my mind there should be an even number of teams in a division, that way you can have all teams having a fixture in each round. Make an offer of 14 clubs and see which clubs are ambitious enough to try for it...
Disagree. By having an odd number of teams it gives one team a rest every week-end :smt023
Nothing to stop you having two teams rest in a week, that's how the 32 team NFL do it.
Even with 13 teams there would be fewer rest weekends than now. I'm not sure an extra two matches per season per club is what we really need. Although, I suppose with no relegation half of the clubs won't care about half of their matches, so they'll just put out reserve teams whenever they feel like it - that's something to look forward to. :smt009

Crofty
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Crofty » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:12 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:15 pm
Crofty wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:48 pm
ay2oh wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:28 pm


Disagree. By having an odd number of teams it gives one team a rest every week-end :smt023
Nothing to stop you having two teams rest in a week, that's how the 32 team NFL do it.
Even with 13 teams there would be fewer rest weekends than now. I'm not sure an extra two matches per season per club is what we really need. Although, I suppose with no relegation half of the clubs won't care about half of their matches, so they'll just put out reserve teams whenever they feel like it - that's something to look forward to. :smt009
Don't disagree, just pointing out that bye weeks can exist with even numbers in the league.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:19 pm

Can you imagine with rest weekends you'll have upset clubs if they're not getting a rest weekend when their internationals are away, yet their rivals are meaning some clubs can put out their strongest team more weekends than others...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

CJ
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by CJ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:15 pm

Spot on tiger feet steve. I think I remember when those who played less than 20 minutes in a Saturday international were allowed to turn out for their club as on the Sunday. glad that one changed.

Hot_Charlie
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Hot_Charlie » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:27 pm

RichieB wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:45 am
Would that mean no way back in to Prem then - if no relegation or promotion? How would Sarries feel about that?
Sarries are a PRL shareholder so would just join a ring fenced Prem.

Dangerous4
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Dangerous4 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:31 pm

I just dislike ring fencing intensely. It always appears to be so undemocratic. :smt018

RichG
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by RichG » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:37 pm

Can’t see there being an odd number of teams, as the team not playing on the last weekend could be at a disadvantage / advantage. The last round of games normally all kick off at the same time to make it fair on all teams.

Traveller
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Traveller » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:18 pm

Longshanks wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:38 pm
ay2oh wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:28 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:17 pm


To my mind there should be an even number of teams in a division, that way you can have all teams having a fixture in each round. Make an offer of 14 clubs and see which clubs are ambitious enough to try for it...
Disagree. By having an odd number of teams it gives one team a rest every week-end :smt023
That would certainly be very popular with clubs, players and home unions who seem to be angling for more breaks.
No strong opinion but just playing devil's advocate. A week off seems a good idea until we are fighting for the Premiership and we find ourselves in a position where we play Exeter pick up a couple of injuries, whilst Saracens have a fallow week off and we then play Saracens the following week in a winner takes all match. Food for thought.

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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Traveller » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:22 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:31 pm
I just dislike ring fencing intensely. It always appears to be so undemocratic. :smt018
Agreed. The next step is the ownership becomes no more than a franchise and Leicester Tigers pack up and move down to Norfolk to become Norwich Koalas. Rather like Wasps.

Mark62
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Mark62 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:12 pm

I’m not a huge fan of ring fencing, but if comes down to choice of rugby with ring fencing, or a reduced number of clubs without ring fencing, I would choose the former.

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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by SthrnTiger » Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:44 am

Mark62 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:12 pm
I’m not a huge fan of ring fencing, but if comes down to choice of rugby with ring fencing, or a reduced number of clubs without ring fencing, I would choose the former.
This is my view and why I also think it’s inevitable. I imagine if clubs do survive this then likely relegation next season would kill many off.

Even the threat of relegation next season may be enough to tip a club over the edge now.

mol2
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by mol2 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:19 am

Some clubs will risk going under if they get promoted, however doesn't the risk of going under apply to existing premiership sides?

Loss of a sugar daddy or a big sponsor withdraw leaving huge salary bills and limited income....

So if (or when) a premiership side goes under, what happens - does the premiership shrink and then shrink further when the next one goes?

Scuttle
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Scuttle » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am

mol2 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:19 am
Some clubs will risk going under if they get promoted, however doesn't the risk of going under apply to existing premiership sides?

Loss of a sugar daddy or a big sponsor withdraw leaving huge salary bills and limited income....

So if (or when) a premiership side goes under, what happens - does the premiership shrink and then shrink further when the next one goes?
I guess to take your last point to its logical conclusion there will be certain critical mass of teams below which the Premiership would not be effective; in which case they would probably look to merge with other leagues in Europe which would be a much bigger restructuring job.

On the issue of ringfencing the Chamoionship, I agree with those who think this a bad idea for the various reasons stated. I also dont see why a team coming up would necessarily go bust, whilst acknowledging the financial pressures they would face to compete. They would have a choice not to overspend in order to compete and whilst they may go back down again they and their supporters would have had the enjoyment of what Prem Rugby brings. I cannot recall those who have come up and gone back down again have been so bad that the scores were embarrassing week in week out. The face of rugby and its participants may well change going forward and there may well be teams like Ealing that could make a go of it.
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Crofty
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Re: Championship clubs to break away?

Post by Crofty » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:45 am

Scuttle wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am
mol2 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:19 am
Some clubs will risk going under if they get promoted, however doesn't the risk of going under apply to existing premiership sides?

Loss of a sugar daddy or a big sponsor withdraw leaving huge salary bills and limited income....

So if (or when) a premiership side goes under, what happens - does the premiership shrink and then shrink further when the next one goes?
I guess to take your last point to its logical conclusion there will be certain critical mass of teams below which the Premiership would not be effective; in which case they would probably look to merge with other leagues in Europe which would be a much bigger restructuring job.

On the issue of ringfencing the Chamoionship, I agree with those who think this a bad idea for the various reasons stated. I also dont see why a team coming up would necessarily go bust, whilst acknowledging the financial pressures they would face to compete. They would have a choice not to overspend in order to compete and whilst they may go back down again they and their supporters would have had the enjoyment of what Prem Rugby brings. I cannot recall those who have come up and gone back down again have been so bad that the scores were embarrassing week in week out. The face of rugby and its participants may well change going forward and there may well be teams like Ealing that could make a go of it.
I fear you may have forgotten London Welsh, if I recall correctly they scored only a single bonus point (and that was for 4 tries in a game they lost by more than 7) in the Premiership in the 2014-15 season, as well as losing all their European fixtures too.
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

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